Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations | VATSIM pilot Rank

DVA3449
First Officer, B777-200
OLP

Joined on July 06 2006
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Everett Century Club
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club

Middle East

223 legs, 561.4 hours
207 legs, 522.2 hours online
221 legs, 553.0 hours ACARS
2 legs, 12.4 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 07:01 ET by Elad Zeierman

Hello
Vatsim Published the new pilot rank structure:
http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40869

my Question is if DVA gonna be or plan to be official ATO of Vatsim ?

thank you

DVA6824
Captain, B747-400
OLP

Joined on January 03 2009
50 State Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
Globetrotter
Everett 250 Club
Black Pearl Club
Piranha Club
Quincentenary Club
Online Triple Century Club

Watlington, Norfolk GB

536 legs, 1,434.5 hours
315 legs, 538.9 hours online
525 legs, 1,402.4 hours ACARS
10 legs, 17.2 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 10:27 ET by Gary Morris

Elad, that is a very valid question.

Personally, I believe that there are two options or 'routes' which this training system can go down.

1. Virtual Airlines, such as Delta, will be given the ATO rating. Pilots wanting to get their pilot ratings must use a VA or the VATSIM website itself to train.
2. Outside organizations will take charge of the Pilot Training, and be the primary trainers for pilots. VA's may still hold the ATO and train, however the majority of pilots will be trained by independent websites/organizations

Personally, my vote is with the second option. After all, we are always hearing about how VA staff are at their maximum - Surely this added rating system is going to push them over their limits.

Thoughts?

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

DVA071
Senior Captain, B757-200

Joined on July 03 2001
Triple Century Club
Online Triple Century Club

Weston, MA USA

375 legs, 1,827.1 hours
310 legs, 1,535.6 hours online
159 legs, 991.1 hours ACARS
2 legs, 14.5 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 10:45 ET by Geoffrey Smith

I think the question is the extent to which it can be integrated with our PPL/COMM program. I suspect there is significant overlap and the most important service our CFIs provide is the checkride from a VATSIM certification perspective.

On a different note, what are the ultimate goals of a pilot rating program? Are there going to be restrictions based on whether or not you have them or will it be more like our PPL/COMM program? The latter is great but I don't think it's in the best interest of vatsim to do the former, even in the interest of realism.

DVA3355
Senior Captain, B777-200

Joined on July 19 2006
Online Century Club
Flying Colonel
Everett 1500 Club
Four Million Mile Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary

"guiding you home..."
Denver, CO USA

1,959 legs, 8,711.6 hours
181 legs, 715.0 hours online
1,891 legs, 8,382.8 hours ACARS
18 legs, 67.1 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 12:04 ET by Daniel Hodnik

If you read the thread their intent is to in no way limit where or when unrated pilots can fly.

'There are no plans to use ratings as a restriction that I know of. Since they aren't mandated they don't provide any additional privileges to the pilot other than recognition of accomplishment and competence.'

mixed feelings on the topic, don't really care too much, as i rarely fly on vatsim.

Daniel Hodnik (DVA3355)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 12:06 ET by Gary Morris

I agree with you on the restrictions. I believe that in the forum post linked at the top that people are not going to be restricted, however people with the ratings will be acknowledged more.

As far as linking the program with Delta VA's PPL/COMM program, the only problem I see is that our current Academy operates on FS2004 - Until we can solve this, I cannot see a stable method of linking the two programs. Added on to this, there would have to be multiple changes to the current PPL/COMM courses. Therefore, this means that everyone with a PPL/COMM at the moment would not have the rating, however any new pilots who complete the Delta VA PPL/COMM would have the VATSIM rating. Surely this is unfair?

Thanks,

EDIT: Daniel beat me to it - Yes, there are going to be no restrictions wink

DVA6626
Captain, MD-11

Joined on November 07 2008
Six Century Club
Million Mile Club

""PROFILE CLIMB""
Las Vegas, NV

753 legs, 2,288.9 hours
28 legs, 55.2 hours online
747 legs, 2,255.7 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 12:22 ET by Michael Pare

I don't use Vatsim that much ether. I think it will over complicate it and people will be reluctant to use Vatsim.

Michael Pare (DVA6626)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 13:25 ET by Gary Morris

Essentially yes, If they did implement restrictions, I believe that a lot of people will decide to use the more conventional methods such as FSX multiplayer. However, they are not implementing restrictions, so i think we will have to wait and see.

I think that it may end up like the DVA PPL/COMM ratings - People can get them, but no one wants to take the time (No offense DVA!)

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 14:38 ET by Daniel Hodnik

although fine to discuss it here, if you do have strong feelings/suggestions either way, the place to voice it is on the vatsim thread provided by the OP.

Daniel Hodnik (DVA3355)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 14:55 ET by Geoffrey Smith

Sorry Daniel - I did not read the thread in its entirety, as I was really more interested in the DVA connection, hence why I posed it as a question. If the intention is not to use it for restrictions, great, as an essential part of VATSIM is the ability for a pilot to load up at ATL on a Friday night and go wow, this is cool, even if he or she hasn't passed his rating. It's realistic, sometimes challenging first experiences that keep people coming back. So if that's guaranteed to be intact, then great.

Gary - what's the FSX requirement? Can DVA be an ATO and just certify in FS9? I've now read page 1 of the thread and I didn't see anything about those requirements. If it's on 2-6, please excuse me for asking.

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 15:05 ET by Gary Morris

There is no requirement for FSX, however in this day and age with all new payware being developed specifically for FSX, surely we are going to see more and more people moving over to FSX?

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 15:11 ET by Geoffrey Smith

That's true, but that's not unique to becoming an ATO.

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 15:21 ET by Gary Morris

Yes, but surely it would be worth Delta VA expanding their training program to FSX as well? For their own benefit as well as ours.

I regret getting FSX some days, and some days I don't. Its definitely the way forward, but possibly not right now

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

DVA3931
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
OLP, COMM

Joined on January 19 2007
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Million Mile Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Flying Colonel
Globetrotter
Burbank 500 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary

"De oppresso liber"
Surry, ME

1,882 legs, 3,806.7 hours
478 legs, 767.8 hours online
1,107 legs, 1,674.5 hours ACARS
55 legs, 114.8 hours event
195 legs dispatched, 134.4 hours

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 15:23 ET by Andrew Kaufmann

You can do academy on FSX, it's just a more complicated and trial and error method. We tried to make it work last year, and found that it has too many "what if" factors based on people's connections, CPs, firewalls, FSX Service Packs, etc. And the current program we use VISTAMARE, it isn't designed for FSX - nor does it look like the developers ever will make it for FSX.

As far as FSX vs. FS9 for this new system that may or may not be implemented - I think it matters not. Flying by established FAA guidelines and airspace rules, etc - are the same weather you are flying IFR in a Cessna or IFR in a Jet (granted there are some differences - but to the sim - it makes no difference - you're still flying online with a simulator...do you know the rules for IFR and VFR? Airport procedures, etc.
ramble ramble.

Andrew Kaufmann (DVA3931)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 18:33 ET by Gary Morris

Andrew, so what your saying is that a friend of mine who got turned away from the Academy for having FSX could have actually done it?

How does that work then?

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

DVA4707
Captain, B747-400
OLP
E-MAIL

Joined on July 13 2007
Online Century Club
Double Century Club

Smethwick, West Midlands UK

228 legs, 732.2 hours
174 legs, 566.8 hours online
213 legs, 687.7 hours ACARS
14 legs, 40.7 hours event
77 legs dispatched, 37.5 hours

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 18:45 ET by Tom Rickard

IFR= I'm following the road, little pun for all those people who know pilotage, to answer Andrew's question about the difference. Firstly I would like to express why people are complaining about something that they won't have to take part of anyway (pilot ranking), boils down to "if you don't want to do it, don't do it". I think it would be great if delta could be an ATO, but I agree with you Gary, that unless we can have a system were you can be trained on fsx there is no point. More and more people are using fsx with technology advancing with less and less problems, don't deny the future, fs2004 is great, but now that I can run fsx with minimal problems I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Tom Rickard

Captain, B747-400

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 19:00 ET by Andrew Kaufmann

Gary no not at all. We were never close to making it work like we needed or wanted it to. So the academy is still only fs9 doable

Andrew Kaufmann (DVA3931)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 19:09 ET by Gary Morris

You can do academy on FSX, it's just a more complicated and trial and error method

So this is not true?

Gary Morris (DVA6824)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 19:09 ET by Tom Rickard

Shame that, I would love to show off my skills and get recognition smile

Tom Rickard

Captain, B747-400

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 19:49 ET by Andrew Kaufmann

Gary don't read into it. We (instructors) tried and couldn't get it to work the way it needs to as far as sharing cockpits, doubling in vatsim etc.

Andrew Kaufmann (DVA3931)

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 19:50 ET by Andrew Kaufmann

If you want more info email me

Andrew Kaufmann (DVA3931)

DVA4890
Captain, B747-400
OLP

Joined on August 22 2007
Million Mile Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Millennium Club

"Jesus is my co-pilot"
McDonough, GA USA

1,022 legs, 3,005.6 hours
330 legs, 1,101.7 hours online
948 legs, 2,807.1 hours ACARS
59 legs, 156.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 14 2009 23:10 ET by Mark Fetters

Andrew would not be possible to join an online game VIA FSX and then both players connect to VATSIM

Mark Fetters (DVA4890)

Posted onPost created on June 15 2009 05:45 ET by Andrew Kaufmann

It's more indepth than that. The connection issue of both in the same cockpit is really the overriding issue. I could spend hours talking about it - but it makes my head hurt. FSX (Microsoft) Gamespy connection is ok at best, but does not allow the fidelity that Vistamare does with FS9, and without that fidelity and solidness of it's programming foundation - FSX is just not an option.

Andrew Kaufmann (DVA3931)

DVA2370
Senior Captain, B737-800
OLP, COMM, VFRADV

Joined on May 26 2005
Online Triple Century Club
Commuter Conquest
Six Century Club
Stage 1 Prop Triple Century Club
50 State Club
US Coastal Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary

Flagler Beach, FL USA

675 legs, 726.8 hours
319 legs, 311.4 hours online
179 legs, 146.1 hours ACARS
1 legs, 1.6 hours event
0 legs dispatched, 4.0 hours

Posted onPost created on June 15 2009 10:02 ET by Scott Clarke

The flight academy was created by George Lewis using FS9 and Vistamare software that allowed us to "connect" two airplanes together at the same time, have all the switches, controls, etc work AND connect on VATSIM using only one login (requirement of VATSIM). With a lot of help from DVA members, we developed a specific airplane, the EMB120, to do the things we wanted it to do in FS9. Our FS9 program is easy to work for both the instructor and the pilot after going thru a "set up" program.

As Andrew stated, we tried and tried to use FSX, and we had many try to get it to work, but there were too many issues of connection, security issues, no duplicate controls, individual computer set up issues, etc...to make it work almost 99.9% of the time like our FS9 model works.

IF someone would write a program like VISTAMARE for FSX that would work, and cost around $5.00 US....let us know and we will look at it again.

The other issue we have is not enough instructors, those that are willing to donate their evenings, min of 2 hours per night, to teach the one on one program. We have a new group of CFI's that will be on line soon, but we always need more.

About the VATSIM pilot program.....this is something that we at DeltaVA have been a part of for the past 3 years. There have been people and program changes during this time and we are communicating with VATSIM on this "new" program. As VATSIM stated " no one will be stopped from flying on the network, no one".. You would not need this pilot program to fly on the network....

We will keep you informed as we get more info and the program moves ahead. We are sure that it will not be like our Flight Academy, student + instructor in the airplane, following the current RW FAA pilot program, etc. We are submitting our Flight Academy program to VATSIM for discussion. More as we find out!

Scott Clarke (DVA2370)

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