| Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
Low Visibility Departures |
DVA7829
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on July 08 2006
Century Club
Midwestern United States
107 legs, 151.1 hours
101 legs,
138.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2009 20:20 ET by Gary Locke
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A few weeks ago, before I began flying at DeltaVA, I was flying a DL Conx flight on a CRJ 200 from KBIL to KSLC, for the previous VA i belonged too.
Could not wait to get the flight started, after watching the Weather Channel, and seeing the first big snow event of the winter flying season. Downloaded, real time weather, and little did I realize, that KBIL was at 1/8sm and heavy snow.
Did my pre flight, prepared the cockpit for departure, looked over my departure charts and noticed 28R required 1/4SM adequate vis to depart. but I went ahead, closed the door and pushed back on time, thinking this was just a snow squall, and in the next ATIS, the visibility would improve.
I could not see the taxiway nor the edge lights, so I sat put, until I could.
Okay I sat on the ground in KBIL for 1 hour after push, until I could depart.
I filled out my PIREP, and in notes, I remarked, "Departure Delay due to KBIL at 1/8sm heavy snow, rnwy 28R requires 1/4sm adequate vis for departure".
The PIREP was denied due to inadequate reason for delay.
What is DVA's policy on this when flying in inclimate weather
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DVA7180
Captain, MD-88
Joined on March 17 2009
Richmond, BC Canada
59 legs, 109.5 hours
4 legs,
6.8 hours online
56 legs,
101.4 hours ACARS
2 legs,
3.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2009 21:16 ET by Lindsey Wiebe
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hmm should be interesting answer. I would think though you should not have pushed back until necessary vis was present. Would be a waste of fuel and deice fluid as you would need to be deiced several times.
Lindsey WiebeCaptain, MD-88
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DVA3931
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
OLP, COMM
Joined on January 19 2007
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Million Mile Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Flying Colonel
Globetrotter
Burbank 500 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"De oppresso liber"
Surry, ME
1,882 legs, 3,806.7 hours
478 legs,
767.8 hours online
1,107 legs,
1,674.5 hours ACARS
55 legs,
114.8 hours event
195 legs dispatched, 134.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
October 23 2009 06:07 ET by Andrew Kaufmann
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Gary - was t his a flight with DVA, because I see no record of it in your log book.
As far as the policy, you can fly in 0/0 if you want. Most of us, who push towards the realism end will follow established IFR weather requirements. Sometime, I will change the Wx since I have limited time to fly - but for the most part - if the Wx is iffy, and I check the report and I get a window of opportunity, I will go.
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DVA2701
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on November 21 2005
50 State Club
Everett 500 Club
Million Mile Club
Globetrotter
Online Nine Century
Millennium Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Denver, CO
1,041 legs, 3,309.1 hours
997 legs,
3,153.7 hours online
1,020 legs,
3,263.5 hours ACARS
21 legs,
38.4 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 23 2009 10:35 ET by Dean Shultz
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Gary, it's good to see you follow the regs! However, like Andy said, it's a personal preference. Your PIREP will always be accepted no matter what the vis. With that said... it's nice to see someone flying realistically and actually knows about departure minimums!
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DVA7639
Captain, B757-200
Joined on August 09 2009
Century Club
50 State Club
Southeastern United States
154 legs, 232.3 hours
111 legs,
150.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 23 2009 19:29 ET by Kevin Stanley
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Andy I believe he was saying this was an opportunity for a question to be answered from flying this route with a previous airline I think
Kevin StanleyCaptain, B757-200
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DVA7829
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on July 08 2006
Century Club
Midwestern United States
107 legs, 151.1 hours
101 legs,
138.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2009 05:19 ET by Gary Locke
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The question was answered perfectly
What is great is some really tricky flying weather is coming up, with winter fast approaching, nor'easters, snow, freezing rain
CANNOT WAIT
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DVA7922
Senior Captain, MD-88
OLP
Joined on November 04 2009
50 State Club
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
Globetrotter
"Student Pilot: "Um, Your controls.""
Dallas, GA USA
384 legs, 1,292.5 hours
128 legs,
221.9 hours online
382 legs,
1,281.7 hours ACARS
18 legs,
40.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
November 10 2009 18:43 ET by Charles Carter
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It is worth noting that in real scheduled airline ops, what Gary did is what would most likely happen. If the crew has a forecast that gives them reason to believe the weather will improve, they will go. With current pressure to maintain on-time performance many airlines will have the plane push off the gate and sit a while even if the forecast isn't improving. A return to gate 2 hours after push back looks better for performance than not boarding for 2 hours (not to mention the pilots only get paid when the door is closed and the brake is off). For Gary's scenario, there are de-ice/anti-ice mixtures that allow for upwards of 105 minutes of time on the ground, depending on the type of precip and how fast it's falling. So he may not have been wasting fluid, as for the fuel... it depends on the aircraft, some APU's run on very little fuel and a push back crew can push a plane off a gate and have them sit somewhere and never need to start either of the engines until the weather improves. Dispatchers will put extra fuel in the release to allow for the extended use of the APU for this.
I know this thread hasn't been talked about much lately, but it seems like Gary is VERY interested in doing things As Real As it Gets... thought the info might be valuable.
Charles CarterSenior Captain, MD-88
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DVA7829
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on July 08 2006
Century Club
Midwestern United States
107 legs, 151.1 hours
101 legs,
138.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 10 2009 21:36 ET by Gary Locke
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Charles, you are correct in my thinking. I try to fly has close to real world has possible (although not a real life pilot).
Which my last VA wanted to operate like a real airline, but you could not divert if weather was below landing mins. And that is what makesa flying for a an airline so great the variable weather conditions (dispatching also)
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DVA5204
Captain, MD-11
Joined on November 11 2007
Century Club
"Aviate, Navigate, Communicate."
Southeastern United States
113 legs, 494.9 hours
109 legs,
485.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 10 2009 23:39 ET by Nathan Harwood
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LOL @ the guy with 928 legs and over 2,000 hours saying he has limited time to fly! 
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DVA3809
First Officer, B767-300
OLP
Joined on December 12 2006
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
East Petersburg, PA USA
329 legs, 829.1 hours
124 legs,
239.2 hours online
291 legs,
767.0 hours ACARS
25 legs,
52.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
November 11 2009 08:33 ET by Garen Evans
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Now this is just my opinion, so take it for all of that, but it seems to me that adhering to realism to the point of not flying at all is just silly. It's a simulator and MSFS doesn't even model icing adequately, and requires special add-ons just to portray low visibility approaches (e.g., Active Sky). Get out there and have some fun. I even use http://wxjabber.com to find bad weather in which to fly. Now how about that guy in a full motion sim doing loops in the 737 - a capability that is rarely advertised in real life;)
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DVA4471
Captain, B767-300
Joined on May 18 2007
Online Double Century Club
Quatercentenary Club
Midwestern United States
451 legs, 1,080.8 hours
391 legs,
892.2 hours online
234 legs,
554.1 hours ACARS
9 legs,
22.5 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
November 11 2009 08:47 ET by Jason D'Ambrosio
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Gary, every airline has an operation manual in those manuals it specifies departure and arrival procedures. For example at PSA there a regional carrier,there departure limitation is 800 RVR.So back to the original question yes there is a limit,but it depends on the equipment they are flying and there ops specs.
If you want any more detail don't hesitate to message me.
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DVA7829
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on July 08 2006
Century Club
Midwestern United States
107 legs, 151.1 hours
101 legs,
138.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 11 2009 17:34 ET by Gary Locke
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jason, I have the limitations for approaches to all of Delta's fleet, but thanks for the offer.
Garen I have a blast when I fly, but I utilize real world weather, and if I have a 1/8 SM at my arrival airport, there is no way I am shooting the approach, because I do not have the required visibility, and that is what makes flying fun for me, becasuse while I sit in an office and dispatch flights, and sweat on bad weather days, I now get to see what the pilots deal with, without the safety of 50 real passengers in the back of my plane being at stake
All I was stating at my previous SIM airline my PIREP was refused because I waited for legal visibility to depart, and yet they wanted realism
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DVA5578
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 04 2008
Double Century Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
Stilwell, KS USA
249 legs, 331.3 hours
35 legs,
44.5 hours online
248 legs,
330.0 hours ACARS
2 legs,
2.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
November 12 2009 15:08 ET by Joel Cox
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Yeah, I wish we had some sort of 121 ops manual like Delta does. With limiting RVR for takeoff/landings, and all the good stuff that goes along with it. But, alas, you can only get to a certain point before it becomes too difficult to simulate.
Joel CoxCaptain, B757-200
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