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Fleet 777-200ER Pitch Problems |
DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 13 2010 23:14 ET by Ethan Olshever
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Whenever I try to fly the Fleet 772 (off the DVA books, of course), it always almost stalls at near 33,000 feet. I am forced to have low cruise altitudes (FL330) instead of a more realistic higher cruise altitude (FL380). Is there anything I can do to make it more realistic and be able to climb to 40,000 feet? When I'm climbing at 100fpm on an off-the-books overnight flight from Seattle to Dubai in the Fleet 777-200ER, I was about 10 degrees pitched up at M.59 at 35,000 feet. I tried to post a picture, but the FSX screenshots are .BMP files, not .JPG files.
PS- I cannot edit CFG files (if that's the problem) so if that is the solution, I would appreciate it if you can email me the edited CFG file.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA1651
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on April 25 2004
Everett 250 Club
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Globetrotter
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"DAL1651 heavy is type MD-11, ready for blastoff"
Nashville, TN
879 legs, 3,275.4 hours
436 legs,
1,621.5 hours online
626 legs,
2,413.4 hours ACARS
28 legs,
89.5 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 13 2010 23:35 ET by James Marshall
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A flight that long you're probably overweight. Regardless, I always had trouble with the fleet 777 too when I flew it back in the day. She just doesn't want to climb. Go to the "fuel/payload" page and empty out all cargo and pax weights, etc, and just load it with fuel and see if that helps.
James MarshallSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA4290
Senior Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on April 04 2007
50 State Club
Online Triple Century Club
Quincentenary Club
"Lightning coming out of that one"
Houston, TX USA
502 legs, 829.4 hours
340 legs,
575.5 hours online
421 legs,
683.7 hours ACARS
41 legs,
81.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 02:54 ET by Andrew Lynn
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Ethan, wou will most leikely find an asnwer more quickly if you open an issue with the help desk.
BTW, I have ahd the same problem so it's not you 
Andrew LynnSenior Captain, CRJ-200
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DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 10:22 ET by Ethan Olshever
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OK thanks for the help.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA4965
Senior Captain, B737-800
Joined on September 07 2007
Online Quintuple Century Club
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club
Everett Millennium Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Saratoga Springs, UT USA
1,195 legs, 3,500.8 hours
566 legs,
825.5 hours online
1,174 legs,
3,437.6 hours ACARS
26 legs,
51.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 10:48 ET by Alan Cluff
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I agree that you are probably over weight for that altitude. You'll need to step climb burning off fuel as you fly and gradually stepping up to cruise altitude.
Alan CluffSenior Captain, B737-800
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DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 10:54 ET by Ethan Olshever
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OK. I did a direct climb to FL380 (Which probably wasn't a great idea). I stopped at FL330, got up to M.85, and then climbed to FL380 at 100fpm.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA4965
Senior Captain, B737-800
Joined on September 07 2007
Online Quintuple Century Club
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club
Everett Millennium Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Saratoga Springs, UT USA
1,195 legs, 3,500.8 hours
566 legs,
825.5 hours online
1,174 legs,
3,437.6 hours ACARS
26 legs,
51.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 10:59 ET by Alan Cluff
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It's difficult to determine the optimal altitude without an FMC. What I normally do on a flight of that length in an aircraft without an FMC is fly the first hour at FL300-310, and then over the next 2/3 of the flight slowly step up to cruise as I burn off fuel. In more complex payware aircraft you are given information on when it is best to step up to the next optimal Flight Level. I would spend more time at intermediate Flight Levels if I were you.
Alan CluffSenior Captain, B737-800
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DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 11:17 ET by Ethan Olshever
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Alan Cluff wrote:
It's difficult to determine the optimal altitude without an FMC. What I normally do on a flight of that length in an aircraft without an FMC is fly the first hour at FL300-310, and then over the next 2/3 of the flight slowly step up to cruise as I burn off fuel. In more complex payware aircraft you are given information on when it is best to step up to the next optimal Flight Level. I would spend more time at intermediate Flight Levels if I were you.
OK, I'll try the step climbing next time. Good thing I'm not rated in the 777 here at DVA.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA8269
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 28 2010
Million Mile Club
Six Century Club
Globetrotter
Western Canada
651 legs, 2,930.0 hours
650 legs,
2,925.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 16:53 ET by Kent Harpham
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Gentlemen,
I put in a lot of time with the Fleet 777 (63 Legs, 383.2 hours). The 777 is a beautiful creature if handled correctly and is perfectly satisfied at high flight levels (FL390-410), however, much like the Fleet CRJ, the 777 is GROSSLY overweight by default. You must "trim" off some passengers, baggage and use fuel weights appropriate to the flight you are doing. It may not look it, but the 777 is a jumbo-jet and it takes considerable power (which it has in spades) to get that thing high in the sky, meaning, step-climbing (or slow-climbing) is the key.
On long hauls, I know many pilots (including myself) want to have all systems go and then walk away and go swimming, biking, have dinner, visit friends, go to work, etc. For the most part this can still be done, but unfortunately on long hauls (+6,000nm), you may have to "baby sit" the aircraft (this goes for the PMDG 747-400 as well) and "manually" inch it up to its planned flight level (especially if it's full to the brim with passengers, baggage and fuel). If you don't want to baby sit the 777, the other way, is kind of like what Alan said with a little modification.
Once you're at FL300-320, level off and accelerate to speed. Then do a slow, 100 fpm climb and watch what your speed does (KIAS). If your speed isn't too badly affected, inch it to 200 fpm (or not). Either way, you'll eventually get to your planned flight level (and your passengers won't even notice). In the RW the pilots are sitting right there the whole time and can easily baby sit the step-climb. We don't have that luxury, unless we're at the PC for the first few hours of our flight. If you're at the computer for a few thousand nm, then great - step climb. If not, the 100 fpm climb is about the only way to reach those high flight levels in a 777 (or 747) full to the brim with passengers, baggage and fuel.
There are other ways too. Go to FL320, walk away (eat, nap, whatever) and cruise for a couple of hours, come back and climb to FL340, come back in another couple hours, etc.
I spoke with a RW 777=300LR pilot (Air Canada) and a couple mechanics (GE90) about this kind of thing and it basically works the same way in real life. The 777 (or any jumbo jet) is an extremely powerful world wonder, however, it cannot and will never beat the laws of physics. If my FS started beating the laws of physics, I wouldn't really be too interested in it anyway.
I absolutely love the Triple-7... the real thing AND (lol) the Fleet 777. It's really not that bad and even my pilot buddy thinks its alright. Until the PMDG-777 comes out (for FSX), this is what we got. The laws of physics will ABSOLUTELY apply to the PMDG-777 as well. Sorry the news isn't better.
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DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 16:55 ET by Ethan Olshever
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That seems like great advice. I tried to do a direct climb to 38,000 feet, and that was probably the problem.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA5919
Captain, MD-11
Joined on May 13 2008
Everett Century Club
50 State Club
Commuter Conquest
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Quincentenary Club
"...and don't call me Shirley"
Hillsboro, OR USA
507 legs, 1,438.9 hours
4 legs,
3.7 hours online
506 legs,
1,436.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 17:32 ET by Jack Vogel
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Kent, this is why everyone loves the PMDG MD-11 so much, it will actually calculate and do the step
climbing all automatically, so the long hauls while you sleep or whatever work very well. Similarly, with
the 747 (if its realistic like PMDG) has all this fuel reconfiguration stuff to worry about and the MD-11
does not.
I wonder if the 777 RW avionics can handle the stepping, because if so you can bet that the PMDG
whenever it finally gets here, will do the same
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DVA8269
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 28 2010
Million Mile Club
Six Century Club
Globetrotter
Western Canada
651 legs, 2,930.0 hours
650 legs,
2,925.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 14 2010 18:08 ET by Kent Harpham
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Agreed. I would go for the PMDG MD-11 (and some of you guys will kill me here), but I'm a Boeing man. Hence, I am currently using the PMDG 747-400 and to be honest, I love it!!! You still have to baby sit the step climb (sometimes and depends on several factors). For the most part, it WILL step climb for you as the computer won't allow a stall. Nothing against the PMDG MD-11 at all - I just can't see paying for something that I won't use a whole lot.
Anyway, in the year 3000 (or in 2011 in a parallel universe) when the PMDG 777 is released, I'm sure it will follow strict modelling of the FMC and an automatic, pilot calculated (or computer calculated) step climb will be facilitated. I think it's taking a long time because PMDG and Boeing really want to blow us away with a superior, well tested model.
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DVA8088
Chief Pilot, B737-800
OLP, 737-ATP
Joined on December 11 2009
50 State Club
Globetrotter
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"Real Time & Online. The only way to fly!!"
Corona, CA
7,283 legs, 15,069.7 hours
6,870 legs,
13,632.1 hours online
7,222 legs,
14,901.2 hours ACARS
372 legs,
926.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 17 2010 20:08 ET by Scott Simmons
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Are you using FSInn? There is a bug in FSINN/FSX. (http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=36297&sid=a774127c7425e8e39daca66194115f5b)
I had the same problem with several planes, mostly the stock FSX 737-800 until I got ActiveSky.
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DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club
"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA
189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs,
751.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 17 2010 20:14 ET by Ethan Olshever
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Actually it was because I was too heavy. I think this problem has been solved.
Ethan OlsheverFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA8088
Chief Pilot, B737-800
OLP, 737-ATP
Joined on December 11 2009
50 State Club
Globetrotter
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
Everett Quad-Millennium Club
Events Triple Century Club
Online Sixty Century Club
Six Million Mile Club
Seven Millennium Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"Real Time & Online. The only way to fly!!"
Corona, CA
7,283 legs, 15,069.7 hours
6,870 legs,
13,632.1 hours online
7,222 legs,
14,901.2 hours ACARS
372 legs,
926.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 17 2010 20:19 ET by Scott Simmons
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If the TAT (temp) that you are getting is not a negative value (or at least less than 10 degrees) when you're over FL300, you still may have 'issues'...unless you're already using ActiveSky or another weather program.
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