Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations | 757 descent

DVA7130
Senior Captain, B727-200
OLP

Joined on March 23 2009
50 State Club
Everett 250 Club
Events Century Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
Eight Century Club
Online Eight Century

"Hudson, we have a problem"
Tyrone, GA USA

846 legs, 1,482.4 hours
814 legs, 1,429.8 hours online
818 legs, 1,443.2 hours ACARS
178 legs, 322.6 hours event

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 10:35 ET by Ryan Morse

Could anybody experienced in the 757 explain their descent procedure? At -2000 to -1500 f/m, I am having trouble slowing it down, but -1000 feels too slow. Even at flight idle the slowest it will go is about 270/260 Kts. I can't make 15k at 250 kts. or 12k at 240 kts. On the DVA installer the speed brake only has two possible possitions ARM, which is too little and FULL, which is too much. Any explainations or thoughts would be appreciated.

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

DVA8622
First Officer, B777-200

Joined on April 14 2010
Century Club

"We're off, like a heard of turtles."
Commack, NY USA

189 legs, 783.0 hours
182 legs, 751.4 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 10:44 ET by Ethan Olshever

The only way is to use the speedbrakes...just put them up for a few seconds at a time. I don't fly the 757, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Some expert probably has a better idea. What about just starting your descent earlier, so you don't have to descend as steeply? Yeah, it would waste fuel. So?

Good luck!!

Ethan Olshever

First Officer, B777-200

DVA7956
Captain, A320
OLP

Joined on November 05 2009
50 State Club
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
Everett 250 Club
Quatercentenary Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary

"Swing on a star"
Manassas, VA USA

478 legs, 905.6 hours
259 legs, 494.7 hours online
473 legs, 893.0 hours ACARS
70 legs, 123.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 11:07 ET by Scott Bradley

I rarely use speedbrakes. At Cruise (FL300+) I will start with -2400 fpm and cut back the speed to .65M or so. This essentially brings the throttle to idle until you get into the FL280 range. Remember, the IAS does go up, but that's becasue the air is getting thicker, not because you are going faster (at least I don't think my TAS is increasing, but as long as I don't overspeed I'm fine). I might switch over to IAS and set IAS to 280 - 300. By FL180, I am at 280 knts and decending at -2000 fpm. I find that -1400 fpm is where the plane will not increase speed as I come down below 12,000, and I am now starting to slow below 250 on my way to 210. Hope this helps.

Scott Bradley

Captain, A320

DVA7922
Senior Captain, MD-88
OLP

Joined on November 04 2009
50 State Club
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
Globetrotter

"Student Pilot: "Um, Your controls.""
Dallas, GA USA

384 legs, 1,292.5 hours
128 legs, 221.9 hours online
382 legs, 1,281.7 hours ACARS
18 legs, 40.6 hours event

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 12:19 ET by Charles Carter

Remember also that you really only need to be descending at 3 degrees. The fast/easy way to ball park what vertical speed will give you 3 degrees is to divide your ground speed by 2 and they multiply that number by 10 (so if your ground speed is 400 kts... 400/2=200, 200x10=2000, so descend at 2000fpm). Descend at 3 degrees down to about 11,000 or so, then slow your descent to about 100 fpm and slow to 250 kts, then continue descending at 3 degrees based on ground speed, keeping your speed under control. It'll be more difficult when there are strong tailwinds. Going into ATL on the down wind, descending towards 7000 at an assigned 210 kts becomes very difficult if you're dealing with a 30 kt tailwind. If you're having difficulty keeping your speed down, and you're talking about something like staying under 250 below 10,000, then adjust your descent rate so that you maintain speed. It is perfectly acceptable to stay fast until right at 10,000. You can even go faster than 250 if you're assigned to maintain 10,000 (unless they assign you a speed). You just have to be at or below 250 KIAS by they time you reach 9,999 ft. After all of that... if you want to use the speedbrake to get down faster, that's your choice as Pilot In Command. Your alternative is to spend more time (and distance) descending at a slower rate.

Charles Carter

Senior Captain, MD-88

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 12:46 ET by Ryan Morse

I could only get down to 260 at about 12K, but then speed increased to 280, following Scott's sugestion.

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

Posted onPost created on October 16 2010 15:14 ET by Scott Bradley

I checked what I told you in my CS757. I was wrong - that's not exactly how I descend. You're numbers agree with what I got when I followed my own advice. As I was waiting for my speed to bleed off (which it does not do), it gave me time to think about what I really do. Here is what I do, exactly, Usually, I have to cross a fix at some altitude and speed (say 12,000 at 250 knts). What I actually do is more complicated when I am going below 18,000 feet. I descend at -1400 to -2000 fpm so that I level out about 15 miles before that fix - at the same time, when I hit the 13,000 mark (1000 feet before the cross altitude), I reduce the descent to -1000 fpm. That puts me at about 12,000 feet and 270 knts - but I'm 5-10 miles from the fix, I use that last few miles to slow down to 250. Sometimes I just play with the veritcal speed so that I do cross the fix without bleeding off the speed. When I am ready to go below 12,000 I pull the autothrottle speed back to 210, bleed the speed down to 230 knts and then start down at -1400 fpm (I think that number is throw back to when I flew the 737). The speed does increase, but it is slow so that you can also start reducing rate - or use speedbrakes. Sure wish I hadn't confused you. Turns out I am doing more than I thought I was.

Scott Bradley

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on October 17 2010 08:23 ET by Ryan Morse

decsending down to 12K and stoping worked great, but once I started below that at full idle, and -1200 I was starting to go over 250 frown

I don't know where to go from here.

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

Posted onPost created on October 17 2010 08:56 ET by Scott Bradley

I think your equipment is working as designed. Go ahead and use speedbrakes (should not take long to knock off 30 or 40 knots) and/or descend at slower speed. You are forcing me to think about what I do - this is good. NOW ---- Am I doing it right? Anyone else?

Scott Bradley

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on October 17 2010 13:02 ET by Ryan Morse

well, came apon -1400 f/p with spoilers full the whole way past about 12k. It's awkward, but I guess it works.

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

DVA4031
Captain, B757-200

Joined on January 20 2007
50 State Club
B757 100 Club
Everett 500 Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club

Port Orchard, WA

1,186 legs, 3,343.2 hours
1,177 legs, 3,327.8 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on October 17 2010 16:34 ET by Quinlan Cao

Speedbrakes are pretty common in the 757. I've flown 757s RW on American and Delta, and speedbrakes were used every time. If you're using the fleet 757, you can only go no speedbrakes or full speedbrakes, unlike the RW. That would explain why it seems a little awkward.

Quinlan Cao (DVA4031)

Posted onPost created on October 17 2010 21:11 ET by Ryan Morse

Thankyou to everyone who weighed in, especially Scott. I'll take the check ride in the next couple of days so I can start flying for DVA again after a computer meltdown and following downgrade from FSX to FS2002.
Thanks again,
-ryan

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

DVA2750
Senior Captain, B757-200

Joined on December 17 2005
Online Quadruple Century Club
Six Century Club

"Roll Tide Roll"
Montgomery, AL USA

900 legs, 1,831.7 hours
818 legs, 1,580.2 hours online
804 legs, 1,594.9 hours ACARS
20 legs, 45.5 hours event

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 08:49 ET by Derek Bradley

That's not true about full or no speed brakes on the fleet. If you hold the mouse in the lower right corner of the speed brake arm it should turn into a +. You can raise them to 3 or 4 preset positions. Opposite to lower.

DVA8890
Captain, B747-400

Joined on August 03 2010
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club

"The sky is NOT the limit."
Plano, TX USA

336 legs, 1,301.6 hours
77 legs, 255.8 hours online
328 legs, 1,249.9 hours ACARS
2 legs, 4.5 hours event

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 09:03 ET by Alexander Brinson

Try to click/drag the speedbrake to a position, that should help.

Alexander Brinson (DVA8890)

DVA5973
Captain, B757-200

Joined on May 25 2008
B757 100 Club
Million Mile Club
Everett Millennium Club
Flying Colonel
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary

Atlanta, GA

1,514 legs, 4,691.2 hours
1,459 legs, 4,569.9 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 17:35 ET by Joe Coughlin

Typically ATC will step you off at an altitude especially around 10-12K unless you're going into a smaller airport, this typically helps with bleeding off a bit of speed but speedbrakes are also very commonly used in the 75.

Joe Coughlin (DVA5973)

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 17:54 ET by Ryan Morse

Derek, I tried that and a little curser poped up, but it moved it down to full, and the other side doesn't do anything.

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 18:56 ET by Derek Bradley

Ryan, try moving the curser around that area. There should be a spot that works. You can look in the panel manual... it might say.

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 19:42 ET by Charles Carter

Even if ATC doesn't give you a level-off around 10,000, ATC is still aware of the need to slow down. They expect to see you level-off just above 10,000 to bleed off speed.

Charles Carter

Senior Captain, MD-88

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 20:09 ET by Ryan Morse

well, I just finished the checkride, and feel pretty good. As long as I didn't screw up in something like the flight plan or ACARS. That test sure gets your heart pumping for the last 20nm!

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

DVA364
Captain, A330-300

Joined on October 23 2001
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett Century Club
Double Century Club

"COWBOY UP!"
Carrollton, GA

278 legs, 510.7 hours
5 legs, 6.5 hours online
238 legs, 393.0 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on October 18 2010 20:53 ET by Ralph Templeman

When I get under 10000ft, I just ever so slightly pull back on my yoke just enough to lose speed but not raise or lower altitude. then when i'm certain that I can continue to decend without overspeeding i start decending again. works for me. I love my 757

Ralph Templeman

Captain, A330-300

DVA5212
Captain, B757-200

Joined on June 05 2007
Century Club

"Flaps? 25. Gear? Down and Locked? Coffee? Hot."
Brooklyn, NY USA

118 legs, 200.1 hours
36 legs, 72.4 hours online
116 legs, 197.2 hours ACARS
1 legs, 10.0 hours event
713 legs, 1,390.5 hours total

Posted onPost created on October 19 2010 07:48 ET by James Lightbody

I'd say just stick your speeds breaks to Flight Detent and shift them as needed but don't keep them up for too long because they shake the plane.
Try to get your speed below "5" flap setting and once there lower your flaps and that will help.
It's a trial and error thing to find the best way per aircraft (of course that's only on flight simulator because there's same aircraft but different airframes and models)

James Lightbody (DVA5212)

Posted onPost created on October 28 2010 20:53 ET by Ryan Morse

Well, just passed the checkride and have done a few flights... I like it and its awsome to be flying again.
Thanks to everyone that weighed in!

Ryan Morse (DVA7130)

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