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Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | PC Support | Processor Question

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 01:37 ET by Greg Stark

How do you overclock a processor?

Greg Stark (DVA7752)

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 04:24 ET by Craig McGrath

Via the BIOS is the best method. Gonna need to know what processor and cooling you have first, though.

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:06 ET by Greg Stark

It's an Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 3.20 GHZ

Greg Stark (DVA7752)

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:19 ET by Eric Fields

What about your cooling? What else is in box? You need to be careful with overclocking so as to not overheat everything else. To determine that, you need to consider the case, the room in the case, the other components such as video card. Just something to think about.

Eric

Eric Fields

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:22 ET by Greg Stark

How do u find out the cooling of the system?

Greg Stark (DVA7752)

Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:27 ET by Eric Fields

Should be in your specs when you bought or built the machine. You can also look in the case and see how many fans you have. Something from Dell or HP is their standard case with standard cooling. Usually it can handle some overclocking unless you have dual video cards or other stuff like that.

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:30 ET by Steven Rodriquez

Greg, if you have an "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 3.20 GHZ" your processor is faster than mine and I have my FSX settings maxed out and still get 60-100 fps in the air, 30-40 on the ground, depending on the aircraft and the scenery. The least frames per second I obtain with my processor is 15-20 and that is at New York. That scenery is pretty intense. Otherwise, I'm always getting over 30-40, which is plenty. There is no need to overclock your processor. You won't see a difference if you do, and you can cause your system to malfunction if you don't know what you're doing. My suggestion, leave it alone! You have more than enough 'juice' in what you have.

Steven Rodriquez

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Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 17:32 ET by Eric Fields

I think Steven makes a great point. Overclocking does create some stability issues and it does require some knowledge of your overall system and capabilities. It may not be worth the FPS increase to do it.

Eric Fields

Captain, B757-200

Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 18:48 ET by Greg Stark

Well, what should I do? I have my fps locked at 30, but I want to get low frames on the ground and they aren't even maxed out. Any tips?

Greg Stark (DVA7752)

Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 22:32 ET by Steven Rodriquez

Greg, I have my frame rates set to 'unlimited' and it works just fine. What other kind of software are you running with FSX? FSX is processor-dependent and your processor is faster than mine, so you should get better FPS than I do. I can run VOX ATC and REX at the same time and my FPS don't take a hit, even using all of the Saitek products (7 gauges, radio, autopilot, switches panel) and my CP Yoke and Saitek throttle quadrant. The only thing I don't have is a lot of add-on scenery, although I do use Ultimate Terrain X, FSX Dreamscapes Promesh for California, Ground Environment X, and a couple other freeware sceneries. I have also read that some aircraft are frame rate hogs, like the VRS SuperBug and some Captain Sim aircraft. I haven't flown a stock FSX aircraft in a very long time since all my Delta aircraft are payware (Captain Sim 777, CLS 767, CLS Airbus 300, CLS 330, CLS 742, CLS DC-10, CLS MD-81, and the Quality Wings 757). I do fly the stock 737-800 sometimes. I have all the Wilco aircraft (E-Jet series and CRJ series) and these seem to be the biggest frame rate hogs. Of course, I fly on VATSIM always, and I still have no trouble with frame rates, even in busy multiplayer sessions. Can I assume you have a lot of add-on sceneries?

Steven Rodriquez

Captain, B737-800

Posted onPost created on October 16 2011 22:53 ET by Greg Stark

Actuaaly, no. I only have one freeware addon scenery, no payware aicraft, I do fly on vatsim and all I have is a CH products yoke and a Saitek joystick.

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Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 08:30 ET by David Garrison

People's knowledge of computers here are so funny sometimes.

overclocking, when done properly will be just as stable.

Greg, there are many variations of i5's.. download "speccy" and it will tell you all your specs.. But if you have a HP or Dell or anything of the like.. you are out of luck since they lock their bios and you will be unable to do any overclocking.

Steven.. yeah right, try having REX, GEX, UTX with payware airports and payware planes like the PMDG NGX. I have a i5-2500k at 4.8ghz and I average 28fps on my VATSIM flights.

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Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 09:39 ET by Greg Stark

Any suggestions to increase my performance on the ground? In the air I am fine.

Greg Stark (DVA7752)

Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 12:07 ET by Steven Rodriquez

What kind of frame rates are you getting on the ground? Unless your computer is stuttering to keep up, and you have a slide show, you shouldn't worry about the FPS on the ground. It's in the air, mostly on approach or on departure, when you need the smoothness. As stated above, David gets an average of 28 FPS, and that is perfect. The human eye can't distinguish much more than that - I was told by an ophthalmologist that 15-20 FPS is about the maximum that the human eye can distinguish.

Steven Rodriquez

Captain, B737-800

Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 12:29 ET by Steven Rodriquez

David, the key to this is "if done properly." Most people don't know how to do it properly. In fact, every computer manufacturer tells their customers to use caution when overclocking, and will tell them that they are doing it at their own risk. If overclocking was just as stable, then every processor would arrive overclocked from the factory. Your argument doesn't hold water, sir. There's a reason why there is a disclaimer on the processor's warranty with regard to overclocking. It isn't always safe and can cause irreparable damage to the processor, whether it's done properly or not.

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Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 14:58 ET by David Garrison

Steven Rodriquez wrote:

What kind of frame rates are you getting on the ground? Unless your computer is stuttering to keep up, and you have a slide show, you shouldn't worry about the FPS on the ground. It's in the air, mostly on approach or on departure, when you need the smoothness. As stated above, David gets an average of 28 FPS, and that is perfect. The human eye can't distinguish much more than that - I was told by an ophthalmologist that 15-20 FPS is about the maximum that the human eye can distinguish.

I respectfully disagree.. While its true the human eye may see a maximum of 25fps or less.. you can certainly notice smoothness at 18 FPS vs. 30 FPS. It may have to do with the computer screen or whatnot, but if you go lock your framerate to 15 in FSX, fly around for a while.. then change to locked at 30.. you can notice a big difference. Granted, at 15-20fps FSX may be stuttering.. but still.

David Garrison

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Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 15:01 ET by David Garrison

Steven Rodriquez wrote:

David, the key to this is "if done properly." Most people don't know how to do it properly. In fact, every computer manufacturer tells their customers to use caution when overclocking, and will tell them that they are doing it at their own risk. If overclocking was just as stable, then every processor would arrive overclocked from the factory. Your argument doesn't hold water, sir. There's a reason why there is a disclaimer on the processor's warranty with regard to overclocking. It isn't always safe and can cause irreparable damage to the processor, whether it's done properly or not.

Yes, it is at the user's risk.. but that doesn't mean you can tell him to not overclock because he doesn't need it. An overclock to 4.0ghz (if he has a good i5) is easy and takes a little bump in voltage.. but will gain you about 5-8 FPS.. and that would make a huge difference if he is struggling on the ground at say 10fps.

David Garrison

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Posted onPost created on October 17 2011 20:04 ET by Steven Rodriquez

David, I don't want to turn this into an argument, but there is a reason why manufacturers put limits on their processors. All manufacturers offer more powerful, faster processors, but the cost is many times prohibitive. Overclocking, it seems, is the poor man's way of getting more for less, but there is a BIG risk involved with overclocking, which is why manufacturer's warranties won't cover a processor if it is done. The risk involved is not worth the possible 5-8 FPS you might achieve, and might is a big word. All someone needs to do is buy a faster processor if an increase in the FPS is that important, instead of running the risk of ruining the processor by overclocking it. It appears to me that you are recommending overclocking likes it's no big deal. It is obviously a very big deal or everyone would be doing it, and manufacturers wouldn't care if it was being done. Please read below. I posted this for Greg specifically so he can see what he's getting into if he follows your recommendation.

Source: http://www.pcguide.com/opt/oc/risksRisksCPU-c.html

Risks of Overclocking the Processor

There are definite risks that you are taking when you decide to overclock your system processor. There is much debate over what the risks are, ranging from "don't worry, be happy" attitudes from many hackers to those who think overclocking is very dangerous (I guess I'm close to being in that category, although I think it is reasonable in some circumstances). I hope to list here the dangers but with a reasonable indication of how likely they are, and really I don't think I'm going off the deep end with any of this stuff.

Here are the possible outcomes you can expect when you overclock your processor. These apply to raising the clock speed of the processor only, if you are changing the system bus speed above its nominal rating you will need to read here as well.

Success: The processor may overclock perfectly, and run stably for many years to come. There are thousands of people who have done this, and I am certainly not going to deny it. This is the best case outcome.
Immediate Destruction: It is possible to totally destroy a processor by attempting to overclock it. By destruction, I mean that the processor will not boot at the higher speed, and when returned to its normal speed, will continue to not function. This is basically the worst case outcome. This sort of permanent failure is very rare, but it does happen. It is made more likely by using inadequate cooling, and also by being ridiculously aggressive in how far you try to overclock (i.e., trying to run a Pentium 75 at 166 MHz.)
Non-Functionality: The processor may not work at the new speed, but may work fine when returned to its original speed. This is a fairly common outcome when overclocking, and in most cases the processor will not be any the worse for wear.
System Instability: The processor may boot at the new speed, but you may see the system behave strangely. Random hard lockups, parity errors, resource conflicts, strange hard disk problems, beeping, application crashes and Windows refusing to boot are just the tip of the iceberg. Particularly insidious are the overclocks that work almost perfectly, because that occasional crash may be due to your operating system, but it may be due to that overclocked chip also.
Data Loss: It is very possible to lose data as a result of overclocking. If the processor is not functioning properly, you risk potentially damaging the structures of your hard disk's file system. It is also not uncommon for the Windows registry files to become corrupted, requiring a complete Windows reinstall. Needless to say, a full backup before overclocking is a wise move.
Electromigration: When the processor is run at a speed that is higher than it is supposed to be run at, there is a chance that the internal components in the processor may break down over time. The internal features of a CPU are sized in the range of microns. It is possible that when the processor is stressed by running at too high a frequency, along with the extra heat that overclocking incurs, that the actual metal lines inside the processor may form shorts or opens and damage the processor over a period of time. How likely this is to happen, and how long it takes is really not known. The system may work fine for a while and then suddenly stop working.
In addition to the above, you should realize that overclocking a processor will reduce its serviceable lifetime. How long? Nobody can really say for sure, because nobody really knows how long a processor will last without overclocking. Controlling heat is a big part of this equation. When you see people on the 'net saying things like "without overclocking the chip would last 10 years and with overclocking it will last 5 years, so what do I care because I get a new chip every 2 years", just remember that they really have no way of knowing that they are reducing the CPU's lifespan by only 50%--it could be 90%. (And I don't know about you, but even when I upgrade, I don't throw out my old equipment if it still works...)

Also consider that hardware is not static; it ages, it changes over time--and it degrades over time. Even if overclocking works today, it may be working because you are just within the limits of what the system can handle. This doesn't mean that in six months or a year, changes in the hardware due to aging, heat or other stress factors won't cause failures or strange behavior to crop up.

Steven Rodriquez

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 00:45 ET by David Garrison

Haha.. You have NO idea what the overclocking scene is like. Tell me where you can just buy a faster CPU than a Sandy Bridge at 3.7 ghz with turbo.. Exactly.. there is none. For a sim like FSX, it loves clock speed.. No other way you're gonna get it. And don't tell me FSX can run fine at 3.7ghz, because it can't if you have a lot of add-ons. You make a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I've had an AMD x3 720BE at 3.8ghz, i5-750 at 4.0ghz, 17-920 at 4.3ghz, and then this 2500k at 4.6-4.8ghz.. not to mention I build computers as a side job. People get a bad idea out of overclocking because there are people out there who PUSH the heck out of their CPU's to see how far they can go (there are even overclocking competitions) , and in the process degrade the chips and people go "Oh my gosh they fried the chip because they overclocked it"

Chips have built in protection nowadays, a thermal junction max.. so even if you tried to fry the chip, you wouldn't be able to.. It'd throttle down due to heat before you can kill it with voltage.

AMD wouldn't make Black Edition chips (they're made for overclocking due to an unlocked multiplier)

Intel wouldn't make the K series which are made for overclocking.

But hey, to each his own.

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 00:46 ET by David Garrison

And btw.. Greg ASKED how to overclock.. not "Give me reasons why I shouldn't overclock".

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 02:05 ET by Matthew Kerby

Someone feels passionately about the subject of overclocking.

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 08:34 ET by David Garrison

It's not that.. it's just I can't stand when someone just says "oh overclocking is dangerous, you'll fry the chip" and quote an article that he just happened to find first on google by typing "why overclocking is bad". (the article is obviously a bit of a bias since the author admits he is close to the side that thinks overclocking is dangerous)

Then Steven goes on to say "don't overclock, you won't see a difference" which is just a stupid and uneducated statement.

And I actually take something back, I went and tested the fps difference between the default 3.4/3.7ghz and 4.7ghz on FSX.. I saw an average of 12 FPS difference.

David Garrison

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 09:45 ET by Steven Rodriquez

Well, David seems to know more than anyone else on the Internet about computers, so Greg, I'm not going to argue with him. He's obviously the authority. You can decide for yourself. Ask him though if when your machine is no longer working whether he is going to reimburse you for it. Let him put his money where his mouth is.

Steven Rodriquez

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 09:59 ET by David Garrison

Again and again.. such a wrong perspective on overclocking. Keep brown-nosing those warranties, bud and be oblivious to how things really work.

Maybe you should go to www.xtremesystems.org or www.overclockers.com instead of some article written in 2001 (seriously, he's talking about pushing a pentium 75 and you wonder why he's against overclocking) ... and further educate yourself on the matter before you go off giving out misinformation to the next person who asks HOW to overclock.

So Greg - There ARE risks involved, but that's only if you push the envelope. A moderate overclock will yield you some performance gains, and will barely work out the CPU any more (if at all). Just don't read articles from 2001 (ahem... celeron, pentium 4? haha)

Why else would Intel or/and AMD release chips with unlocked multipliers, and target the overclocking audience with their "k" chips or their "Black Edition" chips?

This is all probably just a waste anyway, since if you have a prebuilt Dell, HP, etc.. the bios are locked or mostly locked which doesn't allow for much overclocking or any at all.

David Garrison

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Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 10:11 ET by David Garrison

Steven, I didn't intend to get into a pissing match with you over the risks of overclocking. While I acknowledge there are risks, there are also pros, and as long as you are educated on the matter and don't aim for an unrealistic overclock - you will be fine. Again I apologize if I turned it into an argument, wasn't my intention.

David Garrison

Captain, B737-800

Posted onPost created on October 18 2011 11:36 ET by Steven Rodriquez

Not a problem, sir. I love a good debate as well as the next guy.

Steven Rodriquez

Captain, B737-800

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