Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | PC Support | EMB-120ER

DVA10939
Captain, B777-200
OLP

Joined on July 31 2012
Six Century Club
Everett 250 Club
Online Six Century Club
Globetrotter
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary

"In Boeing we trust"
Almásfüzit?, Komárom-Esztergom Hungary

696 legs, 1,970.1 hours
616 legs, 1,789.2 hours online
687 legs, 1,931.7 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 04:27 ET by Miklos Cserny

I would like to know some member's opinion on the EMB-120ER that has to be used for Flight Academy CR's. As you all know, the CR has to be flown on the Delta's 120. However, I find this a/c the most unstable aircraft I have ever flown since I have been into simulator flying. The aircraft is unstable in heading and keeping altitude as well as attitude, especially as the CR has to be flown manually. I know, this phenomenon is not in my simulator, as all my other liveries are ok, except for the 120.
I hope someone can shed some light on this problem and whether they had similar problems flying the VFR ON Line Pilot CR.
Thanks and regards,
Miklos Cserny

Miklos Cserny

Captain, B777-200

DVA10641
Assistant Chief Pilot, B757-200
OLP

Joined on March 29 2012
50 State Club
Globetrotter
Million Mile Club
US Mountaineer Club
US Coastal Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
Flying Colonel
Online Fifteen Century
Everett 1500 Club
Events Quintuple Century Club

Rosemount, MN USA

1,987 legs, 4,456.2 hours
1,865 legs, 3,929.2 hours online
1,967 legs, 4,422.4 hours ACARS
638 legs, 1,290.5 hours event
18 legs dispatched, 157.2 hours

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 08:02 ET by Jason Boche

This has been debated before in the cooler. One particular thread stands out in my mind but I'm not going to look for it.
Flying the EMB-120 efficiently takes practice. I've flown a lot of legs in it and personally what I tend to struggle with is keeping the speed down. I find it a heard aircraft to slow down. Maybe that's why some refer to it as the sports car of the fleet. At cruise I haven't been able to manually trim the ALT either. I can get it close but it does drift. The sweet spot is always in between trim detents. I flew my P2 checkride finally last night after a few practice runs and am waiting on the grade.

It's not easy and if it were everyone would have their P2 rating and so then what would be the point? Many folks at DVA have their P2 rating by flying the EMB-120. You can do it too.

Jas

Jason Boche

Assistant Chief Pilot, B757-200

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 09:02 ET by Miklos Cserny

Thanks Jason, I am relieved that someone else has a problem with the "sports car". I really thought the fault was all mine. I guess, the perseverance is the secret of the a/c. I still maintain, the MD11 is one of the best to be flown.

Miklos Cserny

Captain, B777-200

DVA3196
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP, COMM

Joined on June 03 2006
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club

"pitchpowertrim.com"
Anderson, MO

619 legs, 1,093.4 hours
292 legs, 503.1 hours online
580 legs, 1,026.5 hours ACARS
89 legs, 191.0 hours event
236 legs dispatched, 110.1 hours

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 09:59 ET by Michael Brown

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble Miklos. As Jason pointed out the EMB-120 can be a challenge to fly. One really needs to stay ahead of the aircraft all of the time. Correct usage of the fuel condition levers, prop levers, and throttle will help you greatly in all phases of flight. Here is an e-mail sent to a member earlier this year from our EMB-120 Chief Pilot Jim Warner:

In this EMB-120 you should have the Fuel Condition Levers at Low Idle and your prop levers to 50% at Top of Descent in order to properly slow down for your descent. Personally, I leave the levers at this position until touchdown to maintain better control of your speed on approach and landing. Should you need to go around, you would advance both levers to the top of the throttle quadrant for maximum power. You will also have to have the levers at 50% in order to control your ground speed while taxiing.

When I started flying the EMB-120 I too was frustrated (Just ask Scott Clarke/Jim Warner! ...many e-mails were exchanged! cool

). But I soon got the hang of it after much practice.

Miklos: Do you use a yoke/throttle setup? ...or do you fly with the keyboard?

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 10:07 ET by Miklos Cserny

Michael, I use Saitek yoke/throttle. As I have mentioned in my previous entry I find this a/c extremely unstable in height/attitude and heading. frown

compared to all other aircraft I have in my inventory.

Miklos Cserny

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 10:14 ET by Michael Brown

Miklos Cserny wrote:

Michael, I use Saitek yoke/throttle. As I have mentioned in my previous entry I find this a/c extremely unstable in height/attitude and heading. compared to all other aircraft I have in my inventory.

I understand that you are having difficulties with the aircraft but I do not believe that there is a problem with it. Many members have gone through the course successfully on their first or second time. I know you will too! smile

I think where some members have difficulty is they leave the prop levers and fuel condition levers full forward all of the time. This isn't the correct way to fly the aircraft.

I'd invite everyone who is having difficulty with this aircraft to read the EMB-120 AOM: http://www.deltava.org/library/EMB-120%20Manual.pdf

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

DVA2887
Senior Captain, A320
OLP, 737-ATP, VFRADV
E-MAIL

Joined on January 30 2006
50 State Club
Globetrotter
Tri-Jet Triumph
US Coastal Club
Millennium Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
US Mountaineer Club
Toulouse 250 Club
Online Eight Century

Charlotte, NC

1,284 legs, 1,794.0 hours
838 legs, 1,045.6 hours online
1,266 legs, 1,772.0 hours ACARS
31 legs, 49.6 hours event
3 legs dispatched, 2.5 hours

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 11:33 ET by Andrew Vane

Flying a turbo-prop as compared to a jet airliner was a learning curve for me as well. The fuel levers and mixture are points you don't often deal with in a jet. Once you get the hang of it, you'll come to appreciate what a great aircraft it is to fly. I'm not a very good pilot so I could not have passed the flight academy check rides without my trim wheel. Overcoming what may be a greater challenge gives you that much more satisfaction. Stick with it! Once you learn how to fly the EMB120 with no A/P through the Flight Academy, you have the skill to fly anything here!

I enjoy the engine start-up sounds and hum of the turboprops too. There are tons of nice short flights you can take in the DVA schedule database. CLT to GSO to RDU to CLT is a nice series of legs in the historical database. All less than an hour and fun practice for manual flying.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 11:52 ET by Miklos Cserny

Thanks for your advice Andrew. I just tried a short flight from KSEA and back (abour 40nm), using Michael's advices and I must say it is starting to fall into place. You are right, a jet is much easier to fly. smile

Miklos Cserny

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 12:05 ET by Michael Brown

Couple points I'd like to add...

1) If at the end of the flight you don't feel it is up to the standard that it should/could have been you do not have to file the PIREP. I often see members filing a PIREP because they thought they had to and that's not the case. ACARS will ask you if you want to submit the PIREP, just say no if you feel necessary.

2) Secondly, members can fly a practice flight and then e-mail myself (or another FA staff member for review). We'll evaluate it and let you know our thoughts. Just don't use Flight Academy flight numbers for the practice flights or check the check ride box in ACARS (use find a flight to find the appropriate flight numbers). The PIREP will be approved like any other PIREP and you'll get some feedback as to how you would have done if it had been an actual check ride.

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 15:25 ET by Andrew Vane

Glad to help Miklos. The DVA Training Staff is top notch and, as you can see from Michael's post above, here to help us all become better pilots.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

DVA9545
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP, 737-ATP

Joined on March 03 2011
50 State Club
Globetrotter
Quad-Jet Quartermaster
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
Million Mile Club
Events Double Century Club
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Online Twenty Century

"YUPIIIII"
Goiás Brazil

2,495 legs, 5,044.8 hours
2,324 legs, 4,766.4 hours online
2,487 legs, 5,015.2 hours ACARS
271 legs, 683.8 hours event

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 15:38 ET by Thiago Braga

Miklos,
I used the EMB 120ER from these guys: http://eaglerotorcraftsimulations.com/fsx_emb120.php
And It seems a good EMB 120ER out there. Try it out.

Thiago Braga (DVA9545)

DVA11781
Captain, MD-11

Joined on October 03 2013
Everett 250 Club
Million Mile Club
DVA Two-Year Anniversary
Quatercentenary Club

Northeastern United States

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 15:39 ET by Joe Cappelo

I disagree with everybody here, I havent done many flights with it here, but have flown many flights with it on my own and find it a very stable and easy aircraft to fly, just sometimes its a bit slow on takeoff and taxiing a bit wierd. The fleet one hasnt given me any issues.

Joe Cappelo (DVA11781)

DVA9716
First Officer, A330-300

Joined on April 26 2011
50 State Club
Century Club
Online Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary

"Take Offs are optional - Landing are mandatory!"
Killeen, TX USA

154 legs, 324.0 hours
102 legs, 218.1 hours online
153 legs, 321.7 hours ACARS
4 legs, 8.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 16:42 ET by Kenneth Dickerson

The taxing part I found is easy to control, just leave your conditions levers at idle, that way it does not react as quickly to power lever changes.

Kenneth Dickerson

First Officer, A330-300

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 17:13 ET by Michael Brown

Thiago Braga wrote:

Miklos,
I used the EMB 120ER from these guys: http://eaglerotorcraftsimulations.com/fsx_emb120.php
And It seems a good EMB 120ER out there. Try it out.

Just so there is no misunderstandings the only EMB-120 that will be excepted will be DVA's fleet download.

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

Posted onPost created on December 04 2013 17:23 ET by Thiago Braga

Michael Brown wrote:

Thiago Braga wrote:

Miklos,
I used the EMB 120ER from these guys: http://eaglerotorcraftsimulations.com/fsx_emb120.php
And It seems a good EMB 120ER out there. Try it out.

Just so there is no misunderstandings the only EMB-120 that will be excepted will be DVA's fleet download.

Got it. Sorry Miklos! I think you will have to stick with the fleet for your CR.

Thiago Braga (DVA9545)

DVA11888
Captain, B777-200
OLP

Joined on December 23 2013
Double Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
B737 100 Club

Sumter, SC

259 legs, 671.0 hours
16 legs, 32.5 hours online
257 legs, 665.9 hours ACARS
4 legs, 7.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on January 26 2014 22:59 ET by Chris Ferrell

Hello All,

I find it encouraging to hear that all of you are able to fly the EMB 120ER because right now, I can't get it to load with the virtual cockpit. The aircraft looks perfectly fine until I try to use the VC and I find myself staring between two engines. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I used the downloader and installer that was included from the DVA website. Thanks in advance.

Chris

Chris Ferrell

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on January 27 2014 09:56 ET by Michael Brown

There is no virtual cockpit ...

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

DVA11701
Captain, B747-400
OLP

Joined on July 30 2011
50 State Club
Everett Century Club
Double Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary

Nijmegen, Gelderland The Netherlands

290 legs, 1,050.1 hours
95 legs, 406.2 hours online
290 legs, 1,050.1 hours ACARS
11 legs, 25.1 hours event

Posted onPost created on April 24 2014 13:55 ET by Liam Kroes

Do you guys know why my fleet EMB-120 would turn left on the ground and bank left in the air? I checked my payload and fuel and there is no inbalance. I find it really odd.
On my turn coordinator you can see that the ball is holding left when I'm taking off. What is happening? BTW I had a thread about this in the past.

Liam Kroes

Captain, B747-400

DVA11180
Captain, A320

Joined on December 12 2012
Century Club

Minneapolis, MN

143 legs, 266.3 hours
133 legs, 249.7 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on April 24 2014 17:09 ET by Caleb Williams

Could it be the prop wash induced yaw? I know Majestic's Q400 simulates this real-life flight force.

Caleb Williams

Captain, A320

DVA11781
Captain, MD-11

Joined on October 03 2013
Everett 250 Club
Million Mile Club
DVA Two-Year Anniversary
Quatercentenary Club

Northeastern United States

Posted onPost created on April 24 2014 17:12 ET by Joe Cappelo

Shes a very sensitive bird, but can do alot if you handle her properly wink

DVA11957
Captain, MD-11
OLP

Joined on February 02 2014
DVA One-Year Anniversary
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club
Everett Century Club
Events Century Club

"Fly everything, it never hurts."
Centereach, NY

290 legs, 843.0 hours
256 legs, 779.3 hours online
276 legs, 797.1 hours ACARS
117 legs, 260.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on April 24 2014 17:19 ET by Darren Tung

The biggest problem is taxiing. Other than that, I find the EMB-120 a very responsive and comfortable turboprop.

Darren Tung

Captain, MD-11

DVA4229
First Officer, B767-300
OLP

Joined on March 19 2007

"Sink rate. Sink Rate."
Southeastern United States

54 legs, 100.9 hours
47 legs, 87.7 hours online
53 legs, 98.4 hours ACARS
7 legs, 11.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on April 25 2014 21:37 ET by Lawrence Woodworth

Requiring pilots to use the EMB-120 for the VFR checkride seems like this is just the Flight Academy staff forcing people to fly a plane they never have to otherwise, and probably never will again after the checkride is over. There's no reason the VFR checkride couldn't be made in any aircraft in the fleet. They're ALL rated for VFR flying, after all.

Lawrence Woodworth (DVA4229)

Posted onPost created on April 25 2014 21:55 ET by Michael Brown

Lawrence Woodworth wrote:

Requiring pilots to use the EMB-120 for the VFR checkride seems like this is just the Flight Academy staff forcing people to fly a plane they never have to otherwise, and probably never will again after the checkride is over. There's no reason the VFR checkride couldn't be made in any aircraft in the fleet. They're ALL rated for VFR flying, after all.

Since you've already made up your mind I won't enlighten you to the legitimate reasons why the EMB-120 must be used.

Michael Brown (DVA3196)

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