Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler - The loadmaster ain't happy

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | DVA2006 | The loadmaster ain't happy

AFV152
Senior Captain, A350-900
OLP

Joined on June 29 2008
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Under African Skies
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"Never say no, try anything twice"
Romania

2,854 legs, 7,290.0 hours
592 legs, 979.1 hours online
2,849 legs, 7,273.4 hours ACARS
3,135 legs, 8,027.4 hours total
9 legs dispatched, 17.6 hours

Posted onPost created on January 14 2014 03:29 ET by Teodor Negru

The A340 was properly loaded when taking off, however, after 7 h in the air, its CG shifted quite a lot. Enough that it stayed with the nose up in the air until it stopped completely. Amazingly, no tail strike - fspax would have eaten me alive if i did that smile

"Ladies and gentlemen, the passengers in the final two rows are requested to climb SLOWLY toward the middle of the cabin. That's good, we need two more people... perfect... now wait until the ground crew puts the tail support in place. Thank you for your cooperation, we hope you have enjoyed your flight and will see you aboard one of our planes again"

Teodor Negru (AFV152)

DVA11781
Captain, MD-11

Joined on October 03 2013
Everett 250 Club
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Northeastern United States

Posted onPost created on January 14 2014 07:22 ET by Joe Cappelo

How did the CG move that much!? you must of had a ton of weight in the back to begin with.

Joe Cappelo (DVA11781)

DVA11755
Captain, B757-200

Joined on September 13 2013
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Geraardsbergen, Flanders Belgium

204 legs, 478.1 hours
203 legs, 476.0 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on January 14 2014 16:11 ET by Dirk Depelsemaeker

Just checked on an A320 loadsheet: TOW is, say 70,000kg with max fuel (about 19,000kg) and the CG is 31% MAC (thru payload distribution).
After a long flight with 5000kg fuel left in the wing tanks and central tank empty (it empties first) the CG will be a bit over 37% MAC.
But with the landing weight of about 56,000kg that 37% MAC CG is at the edge of the aft CG limit.
So payload distribution on TO should be to put more weight to the front, say 27% MAC, in order to avoid problems later.

Dirk Depelsemaeker

Captain, B757-200

DVA11781
Captain, MD-11

Joined on October 03 2013
Everett 250 Club
Million Mile Club
DVA Two-Year Anniversary
Quatercentenary Club

Northeastern United States

Posted onPost created on January 14 2014 16:23 ET by Joe Cappelo

Dirk Depelsemaeker wrote:

Just checked on an A320 loadsheet: TOW is, say 70,000kg with max fuel (about 19,000kg) and the CG is 31% MAC (thru payload distribution).
After a long flight with 5000kg fuel left in the wing tanks and central tank empty (it empties first) the CG will be a bit over 37% MAC.
But with the landing weight of about 56,000kg that 37% MAC CG is at the edge of the aft CG limit.
So payload distribution on TO should be to put more weight to the front, say 27% MAC, in order to avoid problems later.

Thats an A340....

Joe Cappelo (DVA11781)

Posted onPost created on January 14 2014 16:52 ET by Dirk Depelsemaeker

Yes I know. Just showing an example of how this can happen. It's the same principle for an A340, only with different numbers.

Dirk Depelsemaeker

Captain, B757-200

Posted onPost created on January 15 2014 02:09 ET by Teodor Negru

After the flight I did something like that - since the tanks were mostly empty, i started a new fspax flight and added fuel little by little, and indeed the CG shifted quite a lot from empty-ish tanks to full tanks. I am now doing a 14 h flight that I begun with the CG at the edge of the front limit, and I am very curious how it will look after landing; will post the story here later. While I am aware of CG shift with fuel load (think Concorde and 747 which both use fuel shifting to change CG position in flight), I never imagined it is so serious on airliners that don't do that on purpose.

Teodor Negru (AFV152)

Posted onPost created on January 15 2014 05:26 ET by Teodor Negru

Well, after loading the plane so that the CG was as far in the front as reasonably achievable and a 14 h flight, I landed in Sydney with the CG dead in the middle - so that's the way to do it smile

Thanks for the idea, Dirk!

Teodor Negru (AFV152)

DVA7343
Captain, B777-200
OLP

Joined on May 16 2009
50 State Club
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"It's not a job but an adventure "
Lugoff, SC USA

368 legs, 798.4 hours
39 legs, 73.8 hours online
358 legs, 777.7 hours ACARS
1 legs, 2.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 07 2014 16:35 ET by John Morris

I have had problems in the past when I used xpax to simulate the passenger load. Instead of loading from forward to rear, especially with smaller AC like the CRJ's and ERJ's so the AC would have a tale strike at the gate. I guess that is one reason I don't use it anymore

John Morris

Captain, B777-200

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