Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations | Accepted Landings

DVA11957
Captain, MD-11
OLP

Joined on February 02 2014
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"Fly everything, it never hurts."
Centereach, NY

290 legs, 843.0 hours
256 legs, 779.3 hours online
276 legs, 797.1 hours ACARS
117 legs, 260.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 11:23 ET by Darren Tung

I just logged in a flight and I am scared that the landing is too hard. What will DVA accept for landings? (This might sound crazy, but I landed at -1500)

Darren Tung

Captain, MD-11

DVA8088
Chief Pilot, B737-800
OLP, 737-ATP

Joined on December 11 2009
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"Real Time & Online. The only way to fly!!"
Corona, CA

7,257 legs, 15,034.2 hours
6,844 legs, 13,596.6 hours online
7,196 legs, 14,865.7 hours ACARS
372 legs, 926.8 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 11:57 ET by Scott Simmons

As long as you landed on the runway, it will be accepted. Your vertical speed will only be considered when you've submitted a check ride.

One thing to note, though. A -1500 landing will skew your overall landing statistics/averages. It will take an awful lot of good landings (-250 or less) to offset one -1500 landing.

note: the -250 is just a suggested figure. I'm not saying that -250 is perfect, nor is is too hard or too soft. There have been plenty of discussions about that in other posts... ;-)

Scott Simmons (DVA8088)

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 12:00 ET by Darren Tung

Thanks.

Darren Tung

Captain, MD-11

DVA2887
Senior Captain, A320
OLP, 737-ATP, VFRADV
E-MAIL

Joined on January 30 2006
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Charlotte, NC

1,286 legs, 1,796.2 hours
840 legs, 1,047.8 hours online
1,268 legs, 1,774.2 hours ACARS
31 legs, 49.6 hours event
3 legs dispatched, 2.5 hours

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 12:03 ET by Andrew Vane

I approved it Darren. We're all learning and I've had some doosys myself.

Scott has good advice. The check rides are more critical for landing rates. Don't worry about statistics. I have no idea how bad mine are. Better to learn the aircraft and how to fly it than autoland everything to the greased landings list. Makes you a better pilot. Keep on keeping on! smile

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 12:31 ET by Scott Simmons

Andrew,

Wasn't the 'greased landings' list eliminated/removed a year or more ago?

Scott Simmons (DVA8088)

DVA10286
Captain, B777-200

Joined on November 05 2011
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"ASEL - Instrument Rated"
San Diego, CA

1,067 legs, 4,681.0 hours
1,064 legs, 4,678.0 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 13:50 ET by Thomas Weber

Scott Simmons wrote:

Andrew,

Wasn't the 'greased landings' list eliminated/removed a year or more ago?

Yup... after much discussion, it was removed. It was providing an incentive to land as "softly" as possible, which meant either dragging it in (very shallow approach under the glideslope) or floating down the runway to bleed off speed. Additionally, in the RW, the squat switches that trigger the spoilers on landing may not register a soft landing and fail to deploy.

Thomas Weber (DVA10286)

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 14:01 ET by Thomas Weber

Some good reading from Airbus on stable approaches can be found here: http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/files/safety_library_items/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-APPR-SEQ03.pdf

Thomas Weber (DVA10286)

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 14:02 ET by Thomas Weber

And this article from Boeing indicates that any landing over -600 ft/min requires a hard landing inspection...

Thomas Weber (DVA10286)

DVA11180
Captain, A320

Joined on December 12 2012
Century Club

Minneapolis, MN

143 legs, 266.3 hours
133 legs, 249.7 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 15:34 ET by Caleb Williams

No link on that last one Thomas.

Darren,

No worries, hard landings happen. I have a -1700 ft/min one that I'm none to happy about. Probably my worst ever hand-flown approach.

- Caleb

Caleb Williams

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on February 15 2014 15:52 ET by Thomas Weber

Caleb Williams wrote:

No link on that last one Thomas.

Here it is: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_14/conditional_story.html

Thomas Weber (DVA10286)

Posted onPost created on February 16 2014 20:29 ET by Darren Tung

Thank you for the advice. I just flew a CRJ and I landed fairly smoothly.

Darren Tung

Captain, MD-11

Posted onPost created on February 16 2014 22:15 ET by Andrew Vane

I've had landings feel hard but ended up being not that bad and landings feel soft only to find they were -400 fpm or something. I aim for consistency and putting it right on the piano keys.

Even though the greased landings list is gone, its amusing to see people post their landing rates on ACARS chat. "-52 fpm" but they don't say they floated 3/4 of the way down the runway. smile

DVA11180
Captain, A320

Joined on December 12 2012
Century Club

Minneapolis, MN

143 legs, 266.3 hours
133 legs, 249.7 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on February 17 2014 02:41 ET by Caleb Williams

Hey, I don't do that. I do post my good -100 to -200 or within 1 to 1.5 g landings, but only after making a good landing.

Caleb Williams

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on February 17 2014 07:47 ET by Andrew Vane

Ha ha. I'm just teasing. I think its always good discussion even on ACARS chat and fun to post rates a bit. I like to post bad ones too ha ha.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

DVA11882
Captain, L-1011-100

Joined on December 23 2013
50 State Club
Century Club

Midwestern United States

102 legs, 189.8 hours
101 legs, 187.6 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on February 17 2014 10:39 ET by Bob Baur

My landings have gotten worse since I switched to the 1011. You sit up higher & your perspective is different through the VC so the runway is closer than you think.

I haven't had a crushing one yet but they are in the 300-400pm range. I would be happy if I could halve that.

Bob Baur

Captain, L-1011-100

DVA6811
Senior Captain, B767-300
OLP

Joined on December 27 2008
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Budapest, Hungary

1,910 legs, 3,949.7 hours
1,749 legs, 3,403.2 hours online
1,909 legs, 3,947.9 hours ACARS
498 legs, 983.1 hours event
1,107 legs dispatched, 1,520.4 hours

Posted onPost created on February 17 2014 11:38 ET by Peter Kerpel

I have the same issue with the L-1011. Cannot go below 400

Peter Kerpel

Senior Captain, B767-300

Posted onPost created on February 20 2014 20:38 ET by Darren Tung

Even though my landings have improved lately, for some reason, the G-Forces are at +4.0 usually. (Sidenote, I am not rated in the Tristar yet so I don't know how hard it is to land one).

Darren Tung

Captain, MD-11

DVA7343
Captain, B777-200
OLP

Joined on May 16 2009
50 State Club
Globetrotter
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"It's not a job but an adventure "
Lugoff, SC USA

368 legs, 798.4 hours
39 legs, 73.8 hours online
358 legs, 777.7 hours ACARS
1 legs, 2.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 21 2014 05:16 ET by John Morris

Darren just remember this and most on here will agree with me about this... First and foremost is that you work on correcting your mistakes, and second that you have fun.

John Morris

Captain, B777-200

DVA11901
Captain, B767-300

Joined on January 05 2014
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
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"My name is Roger Murdock. I'm the co-pilot."
Saint Paul, MN

310 legs, 483.5 hours
236 legs, 378.2 hours online
307 legs, 477.0 hours ACARS
1 legs, 1.3 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 21 2014 09:02 ET by Thomas Katsampes

I usually fly MSP-ORD or ORD-MSP (all I really have time for, except on the weekends). Yesterday I was on final to 22R at KORD and thought I came in hard (was experimenting with the full-screen view you get by hitting the W key so you only have your main attitude indicator), but actually got it in at about -150 fpm. The main problem I have on landing through the main view (2D instrument panel) is that I literally can't see the runway because it's below the view point. I'm not sure that this is true for real world pilots or not. If I pitch it down then I can see the runway but then I go way below the glide slope. So either my viewpoint/perspective is set wrong - or that's the way it is in the real world and I'm doing something else wrong. To correct for this I usually try to allow myself a longer final (15 miles instead of 10 miles) to make sure I've got everything set up correctly before passing the OM. I do tend to float it in a little bit if runway length allows for it.

Thomas Katsampes (DVA11901)

DVA11021
Captain, B757-200
OLP

Joined on September 13 2012
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Milford, NH

375 legs, 620.5 hours
365 legs, 604.5 hours online
374 legs, 618.9 hours ACARS
21 legs, 51.4 hours event

Posted onPost created on February 21 2014 14:01 ET by Sean Zarella

i tend to correct acars chat when people are posting ~50 fpm landings, trying to get to 0. when in reality that is bad ! your gear needs to contact solid and your spoilers need to delpoy,
and when people would post those low numbers was always followed by 1.5+ g landings, and i would state instead of trying to get to 0fpm, try getting under 1.0g and around 200 fpm thats the gravy zone.

Sean Zarella (DVA11021)

Posted onPost created on February 21 2014 15:29 ET by Thomas Weber

Thomas Katsampes wrote:

To correct for this I usually try to allow myself a longer final (15 miles instead of 10 miles) to make sure I've got everything set up correctly before passing the OM.

The key to a good landing is a stable approach - correct configuration, altitude, and speed. I believe some airline operating procedures require you to be established in a stable approach by a certain point (e.g. FAF, or 3 nm, etc.) or fly a missed approach. If it takes a little longer of an approach, that's fine. It's better to fly a longer final and be established than to try and cut it short and not be stabilized (as the accident reports are littered with examples where unstabilized approaches are a contributing factor).

I have that problem with the 2D viewpoint as well... usually I'll use the W key to get a better view around 3nm. I know it is also possible to go into the aircraft.cfg file and adjust the viewpoint as well, but I never seem to get around to that.

I also seem to remember some discussion in the water cooler that ACARS has difficulty accurately reporting G forces on landing - something to do with the way ACARS/FSUIPC/FSX communicate? I could be completely wrong about that...

Thomas Weber (DVA10286)

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