Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler - PC Died, Replacement Ideas

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | PC Support | PC Died, Replacement Ideas

DVA4895
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Posted onPost created on December 15 2018 15:13 ET by Ivan Weiss

So my PC died frown

No more flying without it getting replaced.....

Options I am considering and looking for ideas:

Option 1: Jetline systems, I have always eyed them but they are expensive
Option 2: Alienware? I would assume they are pretty good
Option 3: Other recommended builders?
Option 4: Buy a new barebone system and see what I can salvage from my old machine (I think the mboard got fried so I dont know what else is hurt or not)
Option 5: Could build a new rig myself (I built this one about 4-5 years ago)

In all honesty this was my first overclocked machine. I am worried thatm ight have killed it although it was very stable. I also think the PSU might have been undersized looking back at it since recent upgrades so I am wondering if maybe that did it.

Suggestions, ideas? Donations? lol

DVA11021
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Posted onPost created on December 15 2018 15:32 ET by Sean Zarella

What was your previous specs and dont bother with alienware, over priced for external glam. I build all my machines .

Whats your budget?

Sean Zarella (DVA11021)

Posted onPost created on December 15 2018 15:54 ET by Ivan Weiss

Well, I honestly didnt have a budget as I didnt plan on my machine dying. I was looking at the Alienware's as it looks like they are around $1,500 or so for a mid range unit. I too have ALWAYS built every machine I own.

The unit I had was a i7 4770k chip with a geforce 1080 card. I dont know if that card is fried or not, chance it is still plenty good.

I also had a Corsair water cooling system in there.

My fear is I am not sure if it was heat, the overclock, or just time that caused the board to die on me. I have never had that happen before but this is the first time I ever had a water cooled overclocked system. But it was stable for quite awhile (years)

DVA13420
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Posted onPost created on December 15 2018 20:58 ET by Adam Magiera

As I mentioned in your other thread...stay away from Alienware, they are garbage in a fancy case. If you don't want to build your own, I have had good luck with Xidax in the past (www.xidax.com).

I assume since you overclocked it you kept an eye on your temperatures periodically using Real Temp or something of that ilk? Generally speaking, the system will shut itself off before the chip takes heat damage. Once it hits TJmax (usually around 100C) the comp will shut down to avoid damage. The system would turn back on if you were having temperature problems.

Adam Magiera

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Posted onPost created on December 15 2018 23:15 ET by Jay Marin

Ivan, I too had that problem before and for me it was the CPU fan, was able to replaced it and that was back in June 2017 and the machine it is till going strong. If that is not your issue, try to salvage everything you can but build yourself, you'll get the best parts at a reduced price. Good luck!

Jay Marin (DVA10698)

Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 07:30 ET by Ivan Weiss

Any thoughts on the Surface Book 2? Can it handle P3D? If so that is a potential option as that would be a freebie through my office vs buying something on my end.

Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 08:10 ET by Adam Magiera

Ivan Weiss wrote:

Any thoughts on the Surface Book 2? Can it handle P3D? If so that is a potential option as that would be a freebie through my office vs buying something on my end.

The highest spec model would probably run it (the one with 8th gen i7 and GeForce 1060). The only area I see being a problem is that the mobility processors (U series) do not have the same performance as their desktop counterparts for power saving reasons and despite some improvements p3d is still very much cpu-bound. Additionally, it seems that the native resolution is 4K on those though it would be advisable for p3d to turn the resolution down to 1920x1080 because a mobile 1060 chip + p3d at 4K will be single digit territory for FPS. So long story short, will it run it? Yes. Will it run it well, hard to say but maybe with the right tweaks.

Adam Magiera

Assistant Chief Pilot, B737-800

Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 08:18 ET by Ivan Weiss

I would dock it to run a true monitor at 1920 1080 but that is my fear.... it wont really handle it

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Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 09:47 ET by Darrell Arview

I am not a computer whiz, but I bought an xforce computer about a year ago and it has been great. Its built specially for flight simming.

Darrell Arview

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DVA9545
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Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 12:22 ET by Thiago Braga

Ivan, Jetline I guess. If you unable to build one for you.

Thiago Braga (DVA9545)

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Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 18:28 ET by Tyler Devereaux

I'm also an advocate of building your own computer. But, if that's not an option, here are some things to consider:

1) Did the "whole computer" break, or just a part? Is replacing that part an option? Sure, you're investing money in a not-new product, but spending a few hundred on a replacement older part still costs less than building a new computer. Provided a little bit of time and commitment, it isn't a completely crazy task to identify what specifically failed on your current machine.

2) Have you looked into iBuyPower or CyberPowerPC? I agree with the various comments suggesting to avoid Alienware; however, I wouldn't say the same for these two vendors. I would suggest looking into and considering them.

3) I'd recommend against the Surface. If you're gonna spend big money on a niche computer (ie: running FS), I'd recommend you spend your money on specific parts that are going to accomplish your goal. And I'd recommend you spend your money on something that gives you a retail-style motherboard (that has options and upgrade-ability, rather than what you'd find in a typical OEM machine that's been purposefully gimped to force you to buy a new one when the time comes to upgrade).

Posted onPost created on December 16 2018 22:20 ET by Ivan Weiss

Tyler, thanks for the response. I know the PSU went. I replaced it and still no start. So that leads me to assume motherboard is fried. Assuming though....my thought was to replace the motherboard means tearing everything out. And if that isnt it back to chip and have to keep going etc...

Just felt that really doesnt make sense unless there is an easy way to test I dont know about.

Next thought was either parts or pre assembked barebone and hope gpu, hd, etc are salvageable. Problem is I just dont know if they are...

Posted onPost created on December 17 2018 02:07 ET by Tyler Devereaux

Well, drat. That's very unfortunate. Sorry to hear that! I understand where you're coming from, now.

Full disclaimer: I'm fairly biased against buying pre-assembled computers, though it may not be for any good reason. My opinion on the matter is that I'd rather buy exactly what I want, nothing more and nothing less, and put it together myself. I often don't find the exact combination I'm looking for when I shop pre-assembled stuff; when I do, it's often at a price I can't justify as compared to building it myself. The exception, for me, is if someone is starting from scratch -- no monitor, keyboard, etc: then, sometimes it's worth it in my head.

Do you know what caused the PSU to go? Did you have a surge or did the PSU just die? If it was a surge, perhaps it's time to consider a decent UPS to make sure that doesn't happen again. Do you have any friends with a working PC that would be willing to let you test your CPU/GPU on? If not, it may be worth it for you to pay a small few bucks and check in with a computer support outfit somewhere and ask if they'd be willing to let you test your stuff on a working testbed. You may be able to save a significant amount of money depending on what components have failed.

It's also a good time to buy parts right now-- everything is on sale for the holidays --so you have that going in your favor. Also, you don't need to buy the full array of stuff to bring your computer back to life. If your MB is bad, you're probably better off buying a modern CPU (I think the 4790k and 8700k are like $10 off?) and some DDR4 to go with it. Staying thrifty and getting a significant upgrade in the process, that could be somewhere around $750. I know that's a lot of money, but it's not as bad as having to buy every part and a whole lot cheaper than a comparable pre-assembled machine.

EDIT: I didn't factor in a PSU, so figure $830-900ish for a decent one.

Posted onPost created on December 17 2018 19:53 ET by Ivan Weiss

Thanks Tyler... I too have always been against buying a machine pre built. But this situation is puzzling me and making me wonder if I inadvertently did something but it has been going for 4 years no issues. And I have ALWAYS built my machines.

I am thinking a surge but the system is on a good power surge protector so I am thinking a failure in the PSU itself. Heard a quick sound, everything shut off, and wont turn on....

I dont have the money right now so I think Ill just deal with my surface pro from work and give it a few months or hopefully sooner and rebuild it.

So chip... i5 vs i7 and 8th vs 9th gen? I have always gone with i7 and would think to do the same here....

Posted onPost created on December 17 2018 21:12 ET by Tyler Devereaux

I'm sorry bud, I don't feel qualified to answer that question. My understanding is that FS has a very specific set of requirements to run well, because it doesn't yet fully utilize what modern CPUs have to offer. But I'm not an expert on what features of CPUs FS uses vs. what it doesn't, so I would feel inappropriate attempting to advise you on one processor over another specifically for FS. If my understanding is correct, then basically anything you build that can run FS well will also run any more-modern game very well.

What I can say is that I spent a WHOLE lot of time speccing out a new computer for 2017, then 2018 (maybe 2019 will be the year I bite the bullet), and my OPINION was that I needed to get the fastest processor I could afford based on clock speed and single thread performance. Accordingly, the computer I planned to build was, in 2017 the 8700K, then in 2018 the 9900K. Someone more knowledgeable than I may be able to give you a better perspective on what you actually NEED. For me, it was purely a novelty upgrade I was planning-- I didn't NEED anything, so I was alright waiting until I could comfortably splurge on exactly what I wanted. In my case, I wanted something that would do really really well with P3D and basically be beast-mode for anything else I threw at it, within reason. So my choice was quite easily the 9900K. But it's expensive. And there's quite a few people on the internet that will tell you that you'd be plenty happy with an 8700K, which is $200 cheaper off the shelf. Also, again this is just my understanding (I could be wrong), but I was of the belief that the 8700K was considerably easier(/cheaper) to keep cool.

Your requirements may very well be different, with the fact that you have a dead computer at the forefront. For me, I would have a very hard time giving up the perks of the i7/i9 lines (though they may not benefit FS specifically.. unsure on that.. but I'd still want the features for my other computing purposes). But, it's easy for me to make that a personal requirement because I'm not in any great need of getting a computer up & running. It may be worth it to you to do some more research and see what's "good enough," to keep the price as low as possible.

Sorry I don't have much in the way of definitive answers...

DVA2887
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Posted onPost created on December 17 2018 21:47 ET by Andrew Vane

When I had some money to upgrade, I went with a combination of 4 and 5. I bought parts from different sources with FSX SE in mind, not intending to use this rig for P3d or XP. I ended up with:

Mid Tower Case from newegg
600W power supply on sale for $50 from best buy locally
Asrock B250-M Motherboard from newegg
8GB Ram from newegg.com
i3 7450K 4.4 Ghz CPU from jet.com (used a first time coupon) that was about $140
CPU cooler thing from newegg

I already had an 256GB SSD. This year I upped it to 480GB. I also aready have a monitor and other FS hardware which I've been upgrading over the years. Already had a 2GB GTX 750 TI video card but just upgraded to 4GB 1050 TI. Love my system and runs smoothly for a 10+ year old FS software program ha ha.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

Posted onPost created on December 18 2018 00:09 ET by Adam Magiera

I would recommend the i7 over the i5. The reason being, that while P3D is still pretty tied to one core, the add-ons you may be running are not. I currently run an 8700K in my P3D machine overclocked to 4.8 GHz. 1 core is always running 100% and all the others run variably between 25-75%. I usually run P3Dv4, active sky with cloud art, Ultimate Traffic Live, and any number of payware planes with ACARS. So an i5 might look attractive price-wise but you will make use of those other cores the i7 has to offer and also be a bit more "future-proofed" when P3D is coded to make better use of more cores. Another key however is clockspeed. You still want the highest clockspeed you can afford and safely run for max performance with P3D so definitely go with a K-series and a water unit and overclock it if that is something you are comfortable with.

Adam Magiera

Assistant Chief Pilot, B737-800

Posted onPost created on December 18 2018 11:30 ET by Andrew Vane

I looked at upping my cpu to i7 7350 4.4 Ghz but its about $250. May do it some day in the future.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

Posted onPost created on December 18 2018 11:56 ET by Adam Magiera

Andrew Vane wrote:

I looked at upping my cpu to i7 7350 4.4 Ghz but its about $250. May do it some day in the future.

For FSX:SE purposes it seems like you have a really solid build still. Upgrading an i5 to an i7 in the same generation of chip would probably not get you a performance gain equal to the dollars spent. For a future build it would be better to get a newer generation chip and motherboard. While its a little bit more expensive upfront it will pay off more in the long run as you will get a bit more time before obsolescence.

Adam Magiera

Assistant Chief Pilot, B737-800

Posted onPost created on December 18 2018 15:54 ET by Andrew Vane

I agree with Adam. FSX is 32-bit program so it will never use more than 1 core of your cpu. If I had better hindsight, I would have upped to i5 or i7 in prep for someday maybe upgrading to p3d or xp11.

Andrew Vane (DVA2887)

Posted onPost created on December 19 2018 22:08 ET by Ivan Weiss

I couldnt imagne still being on FSX at this point. It is just so much more stable in p3d and the visuals are fantastic with dynamic lighting. But at the end of the day I did end up getting the Surface Book 2 through work for now and I'll see if it can pull it off. If yes, great. If not oh well and I'll have to go on leave until time to get a new computer running frown

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Posted onPost created on January 16 2019 20:33 ET by Vince Benningfield

try this company----http://www.ebaystores.com/Micro-One-Computers, i have bought 3 computer from them and u can spec what you want for a good price. all 3 computers are still running and free tech support.

Vince Benningfield

Captain, CRJ-200

DVA13608
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Posted onPost created on January 30 2019 11:14 ET by Gerard Beekmans

Just throwing my own two cents into the hat. I did a full upgrade last month for the purposes of making P3D run better. I settled on these specs.

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K - this is a non-hyperthreaded and overclockable CPU. High single thread performance which would make P3D happier. Hyperthreading is great for other workloads but I haven't missed hyperthreading yet with any of my normal day to day stuff I also do on this computer.

When selecting a CPU, one of the things you'd want to check is its single thread performance vs cost. It always comes down to it. Use this site as a starting point: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

The reason I settled on the 9700K was to strike a balance. It's not the top one on the list, but it's also not the most expensive one.

Check PassMark's high end CPU comparisons at: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

On that list the 9700K is nowhere near the top but it's near the top of the price range I was looking at. I wasn't going to budget a few thousand dollars just for the CPU alone.

GPU: Nvidia GTX 1080 - if you can afford a 1080Ti, go for it. You won't regret it especially if you play other games. I don't yet buy into the RX hype. Nothing on them benefits flight sim in any way yet. And by the time P3D might update to take advantage of it, I'll consider buying whatever is the current RX card at that time. No point in investing in it today IMO.

The rest of the specs aren't really important. Just whatever you end up wanting. I opted for 32 GB RAM, a 1 TB NVMe drive for faster loading of sceneries and whatnot, a motherboard with a good array of ports and future expansion options, and so on. Nothing that's going to make a huge difference unless you are trying to eke out every nanosecond of speed.

Gerard Beekmans

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Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 02:06 ET by Jason Spiskey

Currently I have a Core i5 2500 Quad Core Overclocked to 3.8ghz, a Nvidia GTX560, Win 7 Home Premium 64bit and 8gb of ram. I currently upgraded to P3Dv4 and I am getting a hit on performance. Even with all the settings about the same, I am getting a very stuttery and laggy feel. Even with FPS in the 20s, it just doesn't seem to match up. I am assuming that even though P3Dv4 is set up close to how I had FSX, the extras that come with the 64bit P3Dv4 are more taxing on my system. I want to upgrade my system, but money is tight so I need to be frugal. I am going to reuse as much as I can with my computer which I think will only be the drives, DVD drive, and Card Readers. So I will get new motherboard, processor, memory and graphics card. I have been looking at the i9 9900k and am wondering if it is worth the extra $250 or if I should just stick with the i7 9700k and go with a bigger graphics card? I know there is a tricky balance between processor and graphics card with P3Dv4. It really shows that under the hood, it mostly FSX with a turbo booster attached.

Jason Spiskey (DVA11652)

DVA13576
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Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 10:38 ET by Tom Pletzke

I think the I7 9700K should be good CPU. P3D is very CPU intense. For GPU, maybe go with the GTX 1080 or GTX 1080 Ti. If its in your budget I would also go with 32GB of memory and a solid state hard drive speeds up loading times nicely. It's all a give and take based on budget. Currently, I have a GTX 1080 and I7 4770K CPU. My system runs P3D pretty good but I would like to have the I7 9700K and the GTX 1080 ti.

Tom Pletzke

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 11:06 ET by Gerard Beekmans

I myself settled on the Intel i7-9700K with an nvidia gtx 1080. They are turning out to be a pretty good combination. My FPS is in the mid 30s with medium to fairly high settings. "Complex" addons such as FSLabs A320 and PMDG's 777 work beautifully without any stuttering issues.

It's a balancing act. The i9-9900K could perform better but at a much higher price tag. There is a law of diminishing returns. More performance isn't always better if you do not *notice* the added performance based on how you use your computer. Always a tough cal. I opted for less CPU but more graphics as my personal balance. The added graphics power isn't meant to be used by P3D but by other programs and games I also play. This way it's more a general purpose computer.

Gerard Beekmans

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 14:26 ET by Tom Pletzke

Hi Gerard, This is really good information about your configuration. I think we have a sort of baseline here that I think works well for p3d and flight simulation in general. Maybe we could have a sticky post that is reviewed once a year or so that sets the guidelines for buying a new system. It is a question that is asked many times across the web. Then, pilots could research based on the guidelines and make decisions on a little higher or lower base on budget. It doesn't have to be perfect but at least it will be a starting place to branch from. I think your system would be a good baseline to start. In addition, our baseline should be tested on the sim like yours with good results. I think the baseline could include: CPU, GPU, Memory, Hard Drive configuration, power supply, flight sim configuration, and a rough frame rate for a reasonable pay-ware aircraft like pmdg 737/777 and a reasonable airport like KDEN.

Tom Pletzke

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 16:58 ET by Gerard Beekmans

Hey Tom. Having a starting point is always nice to have to give people an idea what to expect in the real world vs published figures in brochures. Kind of like a car's fuel mileage. Real life never quite has the same numbers but those are the numbers everybody is actually interested in. Practically speaking, nobody drives their car in the ideal controlled test circumstances. Computer baselines are a bit like that. Then there's the whole matter of personal taste. You'll find everybody has a different expectation and tolerance to less than ideal performance.

Maybe a way to approach is it to first agree on a set of testing requirements. You mentioned for example reasonable payware like an PMDG 777 and an addon airport like KDEN (I assume you meant FlightBeam's?) then decide what kind of FPS on-ground and in-air you would consider "good enough as a starting point". With the criteria set, then you can find hardware that will meet the FPS. For example, my own i7-9700K CPU could be considered severe overkill if you aim for 10-20 FPS or you can consider it severely under powered if you want 60+ FPS all the time.

Gerard Beekmans

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 17:46 ET by Tom Pletzke

good points Gerard. I was thinking to keep it a little simple and not go as much on personal taste. For taste you can look at overclock or raise / lower settings, or buy hardware above/below the baseline. I was thinking about just laying it out there with the settings and hardware and show what you can expect at this baseline. From there, you can tweak away at the various settings. So just calling it a baseline removes the personal preference from the equation because that is where is gets a lot more complicated. For example, your last statement about overkill. That would be up to the person to say "I don't need 30 fps so I can go will a little less system than the baseline presented" or "I want 60 fps with setting high so I am going with more system than the baseline". The only thing we need is a respectable baseline setup and I think yours it right on the target.

Tom Pletzke

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on February 08 2019 17:49 ET by Gerard Beekmans

Thanks.

I'm too new around here to presume to understand how sticky posts work, what qualifies them, etc. I hereby offer up my system for any and all benchmarking you guys want to do and if that means I can finally justify buying additional sceneries, airports and airplanes, all in the spirit of community service and providing FPS numbers, so be it! lol

Gerard Beekmans

Captain, A320

Posted onPost created on February 09 2019 09:28 ET by Tom Pletzke

Lets see what others think about the idea and go from there. Excellent discussion Gerard.

Tom Pletzke

Captain, B777-200

Posted onPost created on February 11 2019 02:26 ET by Jason Spiskey

I think 30FPS is a good set point as that is generally what most TVs play video in and it looks smooth. The problem comes in when frame rates are jumping from 14 FPS to 33FPS back to 18 then up to 30 and are all over. I want something smooth that I can run medium to high settings on. I would love to max the crap out of every slider and make it look as real as possible, but if I can't pay my light bill or my house payment because I spent $4000 on a computer, then it doesn't matter lol. I was just wondering if the i9s have that much more power in them or am I only going to see like a 5 FPS improvement which honestly is not noticeable to the human eye. You can only tell when you hit shift z and see the see the actual framerate.

Jason Spiskey (DVA11652)

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