| Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | DVA2006 |
fly the plane onto the runway |
DVA4522
Captain, B747-400
Joined on June 02 2007
Triple Century Club
"Too much fuel is for sissies"
Middle East
322 legs, 577.6 hours
42 legs,
71.0 hours online
274 legs,
467.1 hours ACARS
1 legs,
2.5 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 13:15 ET by Fathi Qaisi
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Today I was on a RW flight from Amman , Jordan to LHR Heathrow in an A321 . The Pilot for some reason tried to make the landing softer than it need be and ended up floating,,taking up more runway than he should and eventually manual breaking way too hard and almost skidding teh plane and gave a us a nice increase in the old blood Pressure . jsut a reminder for those who focus too much on soft landings , always fly your airplan onto the runway dont flare like you are in a Cessna 172.
just quick reminder
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DVA5616
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 21 2008
Middle East
42 legs, 95.1 hours
39 legs,
88.3 hours online
39 legs,
81.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 13:42 ET by Christian Voveris
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Well I hope you enjoyed that one.  I bet they might have needed to change a tire or two after it. I completely agree with you there: the end of the runway and how fast you're getting there is definitely much more important than what the VSI reads on landing.
Christian VoverisCaptain, B757-200
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DVA5408
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on January 03 2008
South America
29 legs, 34.0 hours
17 legs,
20.2 hours online
27 legs,
31.7 hours ACARS
1 legs,
1.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 18:25 ET by Fabiano Thome
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This is the kind os mistake (or misjudgment) I do every landing. Instead of aiming for the rw touchdown zone and landing speed I would rather try a soft touchdown which takes me undoubtely to flare the acft.
Fabiano ThomeCaptain, CRJ-200
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!"
Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online
299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 18:31 ET by George Lewis
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Seems a lot of folks get hung up on the touchdown rate (lower is better, that kind of thing) and float, trying to make this touchdown rate low - nowhere in the real world do we worry about "touchdown rate" - there is a good landing and then a bad landing...
Here is another bad landing scenario, trying to float with a crosswind - this will tend to push the airplane off to the side of the runway. If you're unlucky, you're going to have an accident and this happens in the real world too.
Read the Flight Encyclopedia, 5th Edition section titled "Flaring a jet" - this might help you out some
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DVA3512
Captain, B737-800
Joined on September 04 2006
Western United States
54 legs, 146.3 hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 20:44 ET by Barry Harmon
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Once again my favorite quote from the 737 landing technique page at www.b737.org.uk comes from the instructor's notes: "A firm landing in the TDZ is a good one, a smooth landing outside the TDZ is bad - despite any comments from the cabin crew!"
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AFV046
Senior Captain, B747-400
Joined on September 18 2004
International Tourist
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
HK
389 legs, 1,557.4 hours
243 legs,
964.7 hours online
345 legs,
1,353.2 hours ACARS
21 legs,
92.7 hours event
741 legs, 3,101.2 hours total
4 legs dispatched, 4.1
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 02 2008 21:27 ET by Ryan Wilson
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Moreover, if you land too softly, the spoilers and auto brakes will not activate because the aircraft does not recognize that it has landed. Those two systems not activating cause a whole slew of problems. This condition generally happens below -50 FPM. I personally have had it happen in a few pay ware aircraft.
George, to your point about crosswind landings (which I'm sure is extensively covered in the Flight Encyclopedia), even with the use of rudder pedals, they are sometimes not enough to keep the aircraft on track even flying a standard crosswind approach. Just think of the physics! Floating only makes the situation worse.
Ryan WilsonSenior Captain, B747-400
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DVA4444
Captain, B767-300
Joined on May 11 2007
"What's more exciting than a widget?"
Diamond Bar, CA USA
75 legs, 109.7 hours
7 legs,
7.1 hours online
61 legs,
92.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 10:17 ET by Tom Balderrama
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I try to make my landings soft as possible. As long as I don't over shoot the TD zone.
My best landing, is -12 fpm in the ERJ, and i put it down right on the blocks.
(just mind that FS i a little off from real world  http://www.deltava.org/pirep.do?id=0x34230
Tom BalderramaCaptain, B767-300
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!"
Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online
299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 11:43 ET by George Lewis
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Yep, we call that "max crosswind component" - anything more than that should not be attempted...
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DVA4158
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on March 08 2007
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Piston Prop Professional
Four Million Mile Club
Flying Colonel
Globetrotter
"Hang on to your hats boys!"
Atlanta, GA USA
1,718 legs, 10,102.8 hours
242 legs,
1,138.2 hours online
1,671 legs,
9,893.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 12:29 ET by Bryan Gandall
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Floating is especially true for the 727 as George is aware I'm sure. It is notorious for hanging in ground effect. A very slight kick of the rudder usually will get it down at that point.
Bryan GandallSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA3768
Senior Captain, B727-200
OLP, COMM
Joined on December 02 2006
50 State Club
Everett 250 Club
Quatercentenary Club
Online Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"Never trade luck for skill."
Pelham, NY USA
422 legs, 602.6 hours
310 legs,
445.5 hours online
379 legs,
541.7 hours ACARS
29 legs,
59.0 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 13:52 ET by Gideon Sober
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1000...500...400...300...200...100...50...30...10...10...10...10...10...10 Touchdown! 
Gideon SoberSenior Captain, B727-200
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DVA2481
Senior Captain, A320
E-MAIL
Joined on July 15 2005
Iditarod Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
US Capital Club
50 State Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Toulouse 250 Club
Seven Century Club
Madrid Spain
723 legs, 1,394.4 hours
461 legs,
924.5 hours online
621 legs,
1,110.2 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 14:26 ET by Jimmi Cranford
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LOL Gideon! 
Regards.
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DVA3512
Captain, B737-800
Joined on September 04 2006
Western United States
54 legs, 146.3 hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 18:48 ET by Barry Harmon
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There are also some very specific reasons NOT to float a landing to get a "smooth" touchdown. On a wet runway you may need to "punch" through standing water to get your tires into contact with the runway surface. Floating could very well end up with you hydroplaning instead of braking. Same with blowing dust or sand on a runway. In severe crosswinds you want the wheels on the ground with as much runway ahead of you as possible, just in case - see the video of the A320 at Hamburg for a "just in case" moment. Floating uses up runway and on a busy day may get the controller a bit miffed at you, especially if he has to order a go-around for the next aircraft in line because you were going too fast to make a taxiway due to your floating. Float on a short runway and you just may run out of pavement, much to the detriment of your aircraft, your passengers, and likely your career should you survive despite your stupidity.
A within limits "thump" beats a floater any day of the week.
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DVA4444
Captain, B767-300
Joined on May 11 2007
"What's more exciting than a widget?"
Diamond Bar, CA USA
75 legs, 109.7 hours
7 legs,
7.1 hours online
61 legs,
92.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 19:41 ET by Tom Balderrama
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LOL Gideon, Thats happened to me before i the p-3, 50...40...30...20...30...40... and back to 0.
Tom BalderramaCaptain, B767-300
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DVA5608
Captain, B737-800
Joined on February 26 2008
Century Club
Vail, CO USA
102 legs, 262.0 hours
99 legs,
256.9 hours online
98 legs,
250.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 20:02 ET by Mark McCoy
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| Barry is spot on.. I always felt better when my crew planted the mains down in inclement weather vs. a super smooth touchdown. Inevitably someone would speak up and say "wow, nice landing" in a sarcastic tone. Ahh the many shades of airline ignorance!
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DVA5396
Captain, B737-800
E-MAIL
Joined on January 01 2008
"If it aint Boeing, I aint going!"
Northeastern United States
23 legs, 38.2 hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 03 2008 23:12 ET by Nicholas Birbilis
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I still manage to hit the touchdown zone and land smoothley. Here's a video of me in the 738 with NO ILS or autopilot assisting, on a clear, windless day: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DM0j-9QsSU8
Right in the zone, and perfectly smooth!
Nicholas BirbilisCaptain, B737-800
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DVA3485
Captain, B757-200
Joined on August 27 2006
Grand Forks, ND USA
64 legs, 135.7 hours
26 legs,
62.3 hours online
63 legs,
134.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 05 2008 11:52 ET by Erik Johnson
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that's great for windless... chances of that in real life...hmmm
Erik JohnsonCaptain, B757-200
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DVA5396
Captain, B737-800
E-MAIL
Joined on January 01 2008
"If it aint Boeing, I aint going!"
Northeastern United States
23 legs, 38.2 hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 05 2008 16:11 ET by Nicholas Birbilis
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True....
Nicholas BirbilisCaptain, B737-800
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DVA2750
Senior Captain, B757-200
Joined on December 17 2005
Online Quadruple Century Club
Six Century Club
"Roll Tide Roll"
Montgomery, AL USA
900 legs, 1,831.7 hours
818 legs,
1,580.2 hours online
804 legs,
1,594.9 hours ACARS
20 legs,
45.5 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 05 2008 16:34 ET by Derek Bradley
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| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62L38L228HU&feature=related Here's a pretty good example of what happens when trying to make a soft landing in poor conditions.
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DVA4069
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on February 18 2007
Everett 250 Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Six Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"War Eagle!"
Southeastern United States
681 legs, 2,227.3 hours
478 legs,
1,098.5 hours online
607 legs,
1,936.8 hours ACARS
25 legs,
59.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 05 2008 16:41 ET by J.T. Coston
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Real smart pilots for you there derek...:)
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DVA3721
Captain, B777-200
Joined on November 14 2006
Everett Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
Triple Century Club
Kent, WA
342 legs, 935.3 hours
36 legs,
66.4 hours online
225 legs,
647.5 hours ACARS
4 legs,
9.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 05 2008 19:19 ET by Ian Phillips
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"that's great for windless... chances of that in real life...hmmm"
Except for right before a tornado (makes me think of yesterday in North Carolina)
Ian PhillipsCaptain, B777-200
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